Bizarre 'Spirit anointed' v. 'Spirit appointed' explanation in Dec 15th WT

by cedars 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  erbie

  I have never been able to reconcile this:

  Until 1935 or so all Watchtower followers claimed to be spirit anointed right? So, that means that all 'true' christians up to that point, including the first century congregation which we read about in the bible, and thereafter, were spirit anointed, right?

  Well, here is where I struggle. Are we to really believe that the total number of so called 'anointed' up until today is not in excess of 144,000?

  Does anybody know how many there were in 1935? My guess is that the true number was in excess of 144,000 so the gb had to invent a new destination for all these 'other' christians and, as a consequence, they were coerced into believing they were members of the 'other' sheep with an earthly hope. I understand that the door closed in 1935 teaching is abolished but nevertheless. Does anybody have a total figure for the number of 'anointed' during the history of the WT?

  I bet that would tell a few truths! In fact, it would probably settle the argument once and for all time. Is there anyway we can work it out?

  Please keep in mind that this number in 1935 does not include the first century christians and later ones for nearly 2,000 years. 144,000 does not sound like a lot to me. Especially when history confirms that christianity spread like wild fire.

  It just doesn't stack up to me. Should I be surprised? A resounding NO.
• 

  cedars

  Hello erbie - thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately I was out of whack with my question about 1935. It would seem that 1935 was unceremoniously dropped as a "cut off" date in a 2007 Question From Readers article (see previous posts). I apologise for not keeping more up-to-date with "new light"!

  You raise an interesting question as to whether the concept of 144,000 anointed can be mathematically disproven. I attempted just such a feat only recently by adding together the figures of all memorial partakers from 1934 to 2010 (arriving at a total figure of 947,223 'partakings') and dividing them by a reasonable life expectancy of, say, 49.2 (I calculated this rather precise figure by taking the current average global life expectancy for the world, 67.2, and chopping off 18 years, assuming that an anointed person wouldn't receive the heavenly call until they were at least 18).

  I arrived at a figure of 19,252.5 actual individual memorial partakers over the 76 years from 1934 to 2010. So basically, it's reasonable to assume that (based on the memorial figures over the past 76 years) at least 20,000 actual anointed have walked the Earth since 1934. This figure alone is disproportionate when you consider that 19 centuries passed between 33 CE (Pentecost) and 1934. If there were 20,000 anointed persons alive globally in each and every 76 year period (there were 25 of them) between 33CE and 1934, then there would be 500,000 anointed by 1934 - that's half a million kings/priests in heaven; 356,000 more than the scripturally allotted figure, not including those anointed since 1934!

  Obviously, as careful as I have been in these equations, much of it is guesswork (i.e. the average life expectancy), and the Governing Body themselves have recently down-graded the figure for any current memorial partakers by claiming that any such partakers may be “mentally imbalanced”. Apparently this logic applies to any who partake of the emblems who are NOT members of the Governing Body. Furthermore, if presented with the above calculation, the Governing Body would simply say that we have no way of knowing how many anointed were gathered between 33 CE and 1934. Indeed, there is no absolutely accurate way of knowing exactly how many individual anointed were gathered SINCE 1934, because all figures were taken anonymously. What I’m trying to say is, whatever mathematical approach you may choose to take for disproving the 144,000, either now or 50 years from now, the Governing Body would always find some way of wriggling out of it.
• 

  wobble

  If you keep using electrical analogies I amp going to volt over the gate and go ohm.

  Great thread, I love to see their crazy reasoning, and to look at the sub-text, why they are having to put down the newly anointed etc.

  This religion is just so silly.
• 

  Aussie Oz

  I can just see it...the 144000 are finally all together and...

  Sister wrinkly... Just what do i do now? I have never done anything except feed my husband and didnt even learn how to pay bills.

  Brother confused... how did i get here? I mean, i never even led a field service group.

  143969... Us too!... we didn't do anything but sip wine and eat crackers.

  Jesus... freakin' hell people! What in the world happened down there?

  Brother Franz... well, you made us the faithful slave, and the people were stiff necked and...

  Brother herd... In the end we just took over all the 144000 because well, it was to hard to consult them all.

  Jesus... but surely you gave them all some work experiance?

  Brother Knorr...you kidding Lord? We had a company to run you know...and then they made this governing body thing and took all the power from me.

  Brother Rutherford... MY company i might add.

  Jesus... pardon?

  Brother Russell... Hang on you lot! I was/am the faithful servant, Just me. What in Millers name did you guys change after me?

  Jesus... Oh man, the boss is going to pissed with me! He expects me to rule with all of you helping me... You are all jokes!

  Jehovah... I heard that son. You saying you can't do the job?

  Jesus...Not with this lot! Crikey Moses!

  Jehovah... KABOOM.

  Jesus... My lord! What have you just done dad?

  Jehovah... Just disintergrated them all. Don't worry, we still have plan 'B' you know.

  Jesus... Plan 'B'?

  Jehovah... Yes, lets try the Seventh Day Adventists...
• 

  00DAD

  Aussie Oz - Too funny!
• 

  RayPublisher

  @Erbie - There was 52,465 partakers in 1935 according to WT statistics. They say that during the "gentile times" there were very very few true Christians so this is their basic logic:

  1st century Christians +

  A tiny few during the centuries +

  The Bible Students/JWs since 1879 =

  ????

  Scholars have estimated that there was between 200,000 and 1 million Christians by 200 A.D. so yeah I feel the "144,000" has been overflowed long ago and it just proves that it is a symbolic number IMO.
• 

  PSacramento

  Seems like the HS is far more than just an "impersonal force", LOL !
• 

  erbie

  Hi Cedars,

  thank you indeed for your posting. My, you have been busy!

  As you say, they will always find a way of wriggling out of it. In fact, I think the gb actually plan an 'escape route' prior to implementing any 'new light teachings'. It's always handy to know where the back door is, right?

  In any case, as you suggest, even if mathematically difficult to disprove, the idea of there only being 144,000 until now is untenable at best. It would be nice to find a concrete method of catching them out though wouldn't it. We'll just have to work harder.

  Anyway, thanks for the figures. Fascinating stuff!
• 

  cedars

  No problem at all, I found it quite interesting back when I was doing it, and at least it's saved you a job!

  You and RayPublisher are right, you really don't need maths to disprove it anyway. It's obvious that there would be more than 144,000 who have ever lived who would claim to be of a heavenly calling.
• 

  Awen

  Revelation 7:9 " After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."

  Despite what the WTS teaches concerning this, the scripture clearly shows that a great multitude, that no one could count is in heaven (which is where both YHWH's throne and Jesus are located).

  The 144,000 are simply those that rule with Christ. The great multitude are those who were "anointed" but were not chosen to rule (be a part of the 144,000), yet they are still in heaven.

  This explains why the numbers are increasing.

  Remember Matthew 22:14 "Many are called but few are chosen." Just being "anointed" with God's Holy Spirit is no guarantee of being of the 144,000. It just means you were called. Out of those who were called, only 144,000 are selected to rule with Christ. The others serve before the throne of God.