Are you sick of conspiracy nuts?.....9/11

by Witness 007 220 Replies latest jw experiences

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    PS: It means that I found bohm's comment amusing prior to taking the precious time out of my life to debunk your load of bull shit. It doesn't mean I've dismissed your post, it means that I had not read at the time of posting. AGAIN, you seem to have a big problem with reading comprehension, and you seem to have a big problem with your logic. I read the entire cut/paste - even though you add no material of your own (except the one sentence at the top, and perhaps the "NEXT!" at the bottom).

    People respond to you as if you are a retard because post stuff that turns out to be just garbage after closer inspection.

    Mineta: "I'm not sure that the aircraft that were scrambled to come up to the D.C. area...were under orders to shoot the airplane down..."

    Mineta ultimately expressed the obvious, that the standing order was an open question only Cheney could answer.

    Riiight, I see. This is just seeking to find some sort of foundation for claiming that the standing order had nothing to do with shooting down commerical planes, rather it was an order from the inside job - the order to fly the plane into the Pentagon!

    So Mineta says that *he* wasn't sure the planes flying toward DC were under the orders to shoot down the commercial planes? So what? HE IS JUST STATING THAT HE WAS NOT PRIVY THE THE SPECIFIC ORDERS OF THE THOSE FIGHTERS. That doesn't translate into "Cheney was holding the order to crash a plane into the Pentagon". It's a non-sequitur - another way of saying, you are not making any sort of logical sense, and either is that site you cut/paste from.

    Most obvious is, if the standing order given by the Vice President prior to the aircraft hitting the Pentagon was not a shoot down order, then what was it?

    That is a GIANTIC "IF" there. Of course, IF the standing order was not shoot down commerical planes, then the standing order wasn't to shoot down the commercial planes. DUH! But on what basis, other than being an idiot, do you have for believing that? N--O--T--H--I--N--G except a logical fallacy.

    MeanMrMustard

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    IF the standing order was not shoot down commerical planes, then the standing order wasn't to shoot down the commercial planes. DUH! But on what basis, other than being an idiot, do you have for believing that? N--O--T--H--I--N--G except a logical fallacy.

    You missed the entire point (no shock there). The question of the TIMELINE of Cheney's orders would have exposed a stand-down if it had come out the REAL time he entered his office. If you go back and do some more research, Mineta was shocked that the official story was that Cheney had entered his office more than 40 minutes later than Mineta had witnessed, which of course, would not shed a very good light on WHY the object in question wasn't shot down in time. Well now gee whiz, if the order was to shoot it down, then why wasn't it shot down? Why are jets normally scrambled to intercept planes in about 15 to 20 minutes, but on this oh so lucky day for 19 assholes with boxcutters, NORAD was on vacation! And luckily for Bin Laden, Rumsfeld changed the directive only three months before, a directive that stood since the Korean War, giving authorization to shoot down to any four star general, with the new directive stating only he or Cheney had the authority. Another Coincidence! Tell me then, why weren't at least Rumsfeld and Cheney held accountable for the failure to intercept these alleged hijackers? You really have to try hard to be this inept. And oh, let me not get into the recorded conversations of NORAD people hanging up on distress calls because they were told there would be a drill that day where terrorists would hijack planes out of Boston and Dulles and fly them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon! What a Coincidence for you Coincidence Theorists.

    The is basically the same scenario that played out in the London 7/7 bombings. Somehow, the terrorists find out about the drills and then carry out the attacks knowing that no one will respond.... Oh good Lord you are pathetic....

  • bohm
    bohm

    I see PSON once more run away from his own arguments when he are asked to elaborate on them.

    not the mark of a man who seem confident his world-view hold up to scrutiny....

    or perhaps he is simply strugling with high-school math?

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    I see PSON once more run away from his own arguments when he are asked to elaborate on them.

    not the mark of a man who seem confident his world-view hold up to scrutiny....

    or perhaps he is simply strugling with high-school math?

    I'm not running anywhere. BTS pointed out that your question is lacking necessary parameters. Did you get it straightened out?

  • bohm
    bohm

    hahaha :-D.

    high-school physics man

  • bohm
    bohm

    oh yah, its just to hard, the knowledge to solve the riddle -- calculate the potential energy of a big, box-shaped building -- it is just to damn hard. the knowledge got lost with atlantis!

    its like multiplying 3 numbers together hard!

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    I watched the video at least a dozen times, and I don't see that it "collapses, leaving a trail of dust from the core". I see it turning to dust, period. Then, the dust very slowly started dropping downward while it dissipated like anything else slightly heavier than air. But hey Leo, that's what you see, and that's what I see, and everyone can make their own judgment.

    You probably have been looking at low-resolution/low-quality versions of the videos; it's quite typical for truther theories to be based on such "evidence". Or you're biased by what you want to see. Or both.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W0-W582fNQ

    Look at the core swaying back and forth: first to the right, then to the left, then back to the right. Tell me a structure that unstable wasn't going to fall. Now zoom to 0:52 and to 1:15. If you can't see the columns falling down until they're hidden by the dust cloud, then there's nothing else that would convince you. It's as plain as day. And why wouldn't it leave a trail of dust? The core was filled with concrete staircases and gypsum walls. Instead what is more plausible to you is "dustification of steel," a phenomenon that doesn't exist in the real world.

    I already have stated that there is no way that conventional explosives ALONE were used on the main towers. The experts agree with this.

    Yeahhhh. "We have top men working on it right now." "Who?" "Top ..... men."

    There is postulation on what was used, from mini nukes to ULF electromagnetic waves in combination with conventional explosives.

    All taken very seriously by the international structural engineering community, I'm sure. After all, those are the experts all this should be painfully obvious to.

    Anybody that thinks that the public is privy to ALL the weapons the Pentagon has in its possession is living in la-la land.

    And that means the mind can roam free in imagining what possible exotic sci-fi weapons were used — death rays from space! — which could do astonishing things like dustifying steel!

    As for the "few floors", well, yes, it was more than a few floors on the south tower, but the north tower was hit higher up, leaving only 15 or so floors that did all that pulverizing.

    Only 15 floors! That's still a 15-story building being dropped on WTC1, a mass of 33,000 tons falling at a drop distance of 3.7 meters, which would deliver about 1.2 GJ of kinetic energy to the floor below. That is far greater than the estimated 500-629 MJ of impact energy needed to collapse the 240 perimeter and the 47 core columns on that floor. As far as the pulverization of concrete is concerned, each tower had an estimated 460 GJ available which was more than sufficient to crush concrete at least to 100μm size particles (which would have required 190 GJ) [1].

    I simply refuse to swallow this garbage that a small section like that can pulverize 95 floors of steel

    It ain't a small section. Nor does it remain 15 floors on the way down. After the initial floor collapse, it becomes 16 floors. And then 17 floors. And it keeps increasing in mass — which means an increase in strain demands on each subsequent floor — all the way down. The 80th floor was not any stronger than the 94th floor, and it had many times the mass and force acting on it than the 94th floor had at initiation. That is why the collapse was self-sustaining, once it got started there wasn't any way to stop it.

    with a massive core that held up ALL of the building's weight.

    OMG, you did not just say that! LOL, you are soooo wrong. This is a good example of what I meant when I said that we can't even agree on basic facts. No, the core was not designed to support the entire weight of the building.

    Traditionally, skyscrapers used a skeleton of columns distributed throughout the interior to support building loads, with interior columns disrupting the floor space. The tube-frame concept, earlier introduced by Fazlur Khan, was a major innovation, allowing open floor plans and more space to rent. The buildings used high-strength, load-bearing perimeter steel columns called Vierendeel trusses that were spaced closely together to form a strong, rigid wall structure. There were 59 perimeter columns, narrowly spaced, on each side of the buildings. In all, the perimeter walls of the towers were 210 feet (64 m) on each side, and the corners were beveled. The perimeter columns were designed to provide support for virtually all lateral loads (such as wind loads) and to share the gravity loads with the core columns.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_of_the_World_Trade_Center (that's just a start, you could look up the references)

    Those buildings could have stood without the outside walls because they were designed that way to eliminate columns that would interrupt floor space.

    Wrong. The structural columns that would normally stand in the middle of the floor space in regular skeleton steel-frame construction were moved out to the sides to the perimeter of the floors to create that uninterrupted floor space. The columns weren't eliminated — they were just moved. They're all there on the outside of the building. Your comment is akin to saying that an animal with an exoskeleton could survive without it because it was designed to live without internal bones.

    You're trying to tell us that the momentum gained from 10 or 20 feet of vertical drop was enough to methodically deconstruct the towers from the top down at near free fall speed.

    As I already said, the collapse was self-sustaining (any total collapse "deconstructs" a building). And the towers together had about 1.0-1.3 TJ of potential energy available (depending on how the total mass is estimated). And again, the buildings fell slower than free fall. You can see this for yourself:

    That's a piece of cladding descending at free fall. The collapse itself was noticably slower.

    They could have been hit by a FLEET of 757's and they would still be standing if it weren't for the explosives, nukes, ULF's or whatever they were.

    Considering you didn't even know that the perimeter columns were necessary load-bearing elements, it doesn't surprise me that you think that structural failure without deliberate sabotage was impossible. Funny how what is so ovbious to you isn't obvious to the international structural engineering community (and no I do NOT mean AE911Truth as already explained before).

    When's the last time a 110-story building was taken down by controlled demolition?

    No building even half that tall has ever been taken down by controlled demolition.

    That's what makes the controlled demolition theories so absurd. This would have been the BIGGEST UNDERTAKING in the entire history of controlled demolition — 267 stories in all!! — without leaving any evidence or clues whatsoever that would have tipped off the occupants of the offices. Yeah, sure. Very believable.

    Maybe you can explain to us how it might be done with minimal damage to the surrounding area.

    Minimal damage? The three towers each collapsed onto neighboring buildings. The claim that they fell neatly into their footprint is patently untrue.

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Leo: No, the core was most definitely not sufficient to support the weight of the building.

    Well, that really depends on what links you choose to believe. I distinctly remember watching an interview with Minoru Yamasaki where he said that the core was designed for the vertical load (gravity) and the outer walls for cross-wind/ rigidity. He also made the statement that it was designed to withstand a 707 hit, which was the largest commercial jetliner at the time he conceived the buildings. That's why I choose to believe links that reflect those facts, versus the disinfo bullshit that the Internet was flooded with post-911.

    http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_smoking_gun.html

    This is about the asbestos problem...

    http://www.immuneweb.org/911/articles/moeller.html

    If skyscrapers can't be held up by their core, then explain this:

    http://www.dynamicarchitecture.net/

  • designs
    designs

    leolaia- don't you know that falling object in the video is an undetonated CIA planted special metal evaporating nuclear tipped electromagnetic controlled bomb....

  • bohm
    bohm

    leolaia- don't you know that falling object in the video is an undetonated CIA planted special metal evaporating nuclear tipped electromagnetic controlled bomb....

    holy shit, they forgot to put nano-thermite on it!

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