JW spokesman: We refuse blood, but it's a personal choice

by MrMonroe 42 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    “We do refuse transfusions,” he said. “But it is a personal choice and this is the stand the parents have taken in this case.”

    John 18: 33-38:

    33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

    34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

    35 “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

    36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

    37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.

    Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

    38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.

    -Sab

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    @cedars . . .

    I feel during the 80's and into the 90's they had really pinned their hopes on more rapid advancement in bloodless surgery. A lot of advancemet has actually been made, but is still not universally available, and still hasn't come up with a substitute for whole blood emergency transfusion. They probably smugly expected to be saying "We told you so" by now.

    The scriptual basis has also been under attack and they'd have to be stupid not to see the glaring discrepencies that have emerged. The no-blood doctrine just a full-time headache now . . . and even a lot of JW's can't make sense of it anymore.

    They'll keep clouding the whole thing in complexity and confusion with the final goal being it becoming a conscience matter . . . and they'll argue it "essentially" always was. "Over-zealous Jw's applied it rigidly . . . and their faith is to be commended. But it has always, ultimately, been the individual who makes the final choice." Just like they distanced themselves from 1975 and then blamed the R&F.

    It'll be interesting where they go from here.

  • cedars
    cedars

    Ah yes the typical "please take everything we say literally" followed by "stupid fools, you took what we said literally!" approach. It's sickening isn't it.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    “We do refuse transfusions,” he said. “But it is a personal choice and this is the stand the parents have taken in this case.”

    Anytime I`ve wanted to get the truth about "The Truth" out of a JW..

    I`ve had to trap them into it..

    JW`s will lie all day long about "The Truth" when it suits them..

    When they realise you caught them in a lie,they just smirk.

    It`s no big deal to them..

    ........................;-)...OUTLAW

  • blondie
    blondie

    Do remember that the WTS changed their policy on transfusions making taking them an act of disassociating yourself not be kicked out by the WTS, disfellowshipping in 2001. That started down the road to protecting themselves legally, making it the individual's choice, choosing to put themselves outside the organization.

    *** jv chap. 13 pp. 183-184 Recognized by Our Conduct ***Consistent with that understanding of matters, beginning in 1961 any who ignored the divine requirement, accepted blood transfusions, and manifested an unrepentant attitude were disfellowshipped from the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    It is interesting that it is difficult since this 1993 Proclaimers publication to find any mention about transfusions and disfellowshipping in the WTS publications. The new 2010 elders manual finally lists it but the rank and file have not been updated officialy that I am aware of.

    *** w61 1/15 p. 63 Questions From Readers *** In view of the seriousness of taking blood into the human system by a transfusion, would violation of the Holy Scriptures in this regard subject the dedicated, baptized receiver of blood transfusion to being disfellowshiped from the Christian congregation?

    The inspired Holy Scriptures answer yes.

    *** w61 5/1 pp. 284-285 Do You Remember? ***May a person who takes a blood transfusion be disfellowshiped for it?

    Yes, if it is a deliberate act and there is no repenting over the wrong act and asking of forgiveness of God’s congregation. If it is a first offense and the transgressor sees his error, repents of it and begs forgiveness, he may be put on probation and given careful instruction from the Scriptures on the matter.—P. 64.

    ------------

    5-19-2010 (This is a post of mine, notice that the BBC was deceived by the WTS in 2001 as to the dfference between disfellowshipping and disassociation)

    There is nothing in print in the WTS publications regarding disassociation. BBC had a reference to it. When the CO visited each congregation, at the elders meeting, he verbally told them that it had changed to disassocation. He read it from a piece of paper with WT header but would not let the elders look at this "non-letter" nor was a copy given to the elders.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/790967.stm (below is quote from this article)

    But if this looks like a major climbdown, a spokesman for the organisation - also called Watch Tower - insisted it was merely a procedural change. He said not taking blood remains a biblical injunction and a core tenet of the faith.

    If a member has a transfusion, they will, by their actions disassociate themselves from the religion. The ruling emphasises personal choice, he said. He added that if they repented afterwards, they would be offered spiritual comfort and the possibility of redemption.

    But the distinction between what in other words amounts to resigning rather than being sacked, does seem to be a major shift.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/193452/1/Are-Jehovahs-Witnesses-Disfellowshipped-for-Taking-a-Blood-Transfusion

    -----------------

    While the "new info" that unrepentantly taking a blood tranfusion is now an act of DISASSOCIATION by the jw and not a DISFELLOWSHIPPING act, nothing has been put in writing yet for the rank and file jw that I am aware of. Has anything been said from the platform yet?

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    That's put some meat on the bones Blondie . . .

    It's a very subtle shift . . . unrepentently taking blood . . . and the shifting to an act of disassociation . . . are the weasel words. They shift responsibilty to the individual . . . and give themselves that necessary mechanism of deniability.

    That's now been followed by the "conscience" element being gradually expanded . . . fraction by fraction.

    It has all the hallmarks of a retreat to me.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Also, if the WTS could change their doctrine as to alternative service (not selecting it as a jw) to making it a personal choice, a policy which had lead to many jws dying and/or spending years in prison, they could change this eventually.

    Hey, the WTS changed the date when the GT started (1914) and temporarily ended (1918) to start again at a future date; that change happened in 1970.

    I remember the account of the black or was it green NWT?

    "If the Society told me that this book is black instead of green, I would say, `Y'know, I could have sworn that it was green, but if the Society says it's black, then it's black!' (spoken by Bart Thomson, WTS District Overseer, by Raymond Franz in Crisis of Conscience, p. 296.)
  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    "If the Society told me that this book is black instead of green, I would say, `Y'know, I could have sworn that it was green,
    but if the Society says it's black, then it's black!' (spoken by Bart Thomson, WTS District Overseer, by Raymond Franz in Crisis of Conscience, p. 296.)

    I`ve heard JW Elders say the same thing..

    Translation:

    If the WBT$ wants me to Lie..

    I`ll Lie..

    http://freedomtorch.com/public/album_photo/bc/0d/02/209b1_dd27.jpg?c=bb91

    ........................;-)...OUTLAW

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    if the WTS could change their doctrine as to alternative service

    Yes, I think they would like to change that too. Just do the service and be repentant . . . and then go place more magazines for us. R&F in prison or dead, don't make any income or proselytes for them. Bad for business.

  • dozy
    dozy

    One of the very few JWs who was a fully trained medical graduate ( now deceased ) told me that the WTBTS would dearly have loved to downgrade the blood transfusion ban to a conscience matter but so many lives had been lost that it just wasn't tenable. Instead they have adopted a 2 way policy of allowing all transfusions of anything up to the 4 so-called major blood elements & hoped that medical research would eventually come up with a blood substitute and develop cellsaver & similar technology.

    Gene Smalley (viewed by many as the architect of the policy) has reportedly said that the edict will be removed "over his dead body". I suspect that indeed will be the case , and that as soon as Smalley dies or takes full time residence in the Bethel infirmary , then "new light" will suddenly shone forth.

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