I don't expect a spectacular implosion. Instead there is an erosion that starts at the edges and works inward. The core may always stand firm, but the supporting fringes will dissipate.
NC
Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?
by AK - Jeff 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Momma-Tossed-Me
How do you eat an Elephant...One bite at a time.
We must keep scooping the new light, annoucements, publication changes and the like. Eventually, it will go quietly into the night.
If you examine the doctrine they have set out as prophecy it speaks volumes about an exit strategy, should things start toppeling like Sampson's last party.
Anyone remember the new field service group leader the R&F should look to in times of disaster. He is a shock absorber.
Should Momma just up an "die" then they will persevere for awhile under the guise of the organization being under attack and then gradually all will realize the big A is not upon us and is not coming.
So 99% of JW's will then reassimalate into society, with the WTBTS only a fond or not so fond memory depending on the person. A suprisingly large amount will hold onto their beliefs but they will be tolerated by the rest of humanity throughout the rest of their lives, as they should be.
All of this is already in place and the Tower will exist as long as it can building wealth as it goes.
As a monetary point; the WTBTS does not loose money. They may be hemorraging money but make no mistake they take in a lot more than they spend.
Although I have no proof of this, I believe they budget within certain margins. For example, if a trend develops that cost(s) to operate begin to eat into the net profit margin, set at let's say 30%, then they begin to reduce the costs to produce publications, cut jobs, sell property, and then increase revenue via investment or interest increases through more loans to Kingdom Hall or Assembly Halls. Thus the margin is restored and net worth continues to increase. When the amounts of money are so large little changes can have a net positive result on income or profits.
They are going to milk this cow as long as it will give milk then abandon it in the state park when it begins to die so they don't have to bury it.
MTM
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Quendi
My apologies for reposting this. I initially put this on a thread our friend CoCo created, but I think it is germane to the discussion here. The point CoCo raised was about 2014 and the approaching hundredth anniversary of the end of the Gentile Times:
My understanding from talking to some still attached to the organization is that talk of the approaching hundredth anniversary is generating considerable angst among many Jehovah's Witnesses. The Society itself is circumspect this time as opposed to its drum beating as 1975 approached. That doesn't mean the leadership is unaware of all the talk. Rather it appears that it hopes that by remaining silent, the buzz will die down and 2014 will come and go without any significant impact on growth and preaching.
I think that right now a siege mentality has taken hold in Brooklyn. The Governing Body is acting as if it is encircled by enemies. Its constant rantings and ravings against apostates and apostasy are like nothing I heard and read when I was an active and zealous publisher. Yes, the natives are growing restless and the response from the top has been classic as well as predictable. Haven't we seen this all before, especially in the political arena? A dictator faces calls for significant reforms, relaxation of controls, and a new direction for the country. His response is to crack down on dissent, jail opponents, drive other resisters into exile, and kill the more vocal and recalcitrant of his critics. The WTS and its Governing Body have done likewise, albeit in a metaphysical way.
Eventually, the dictator is overthrown despite his best efforts to remain in power. Sometimes he escapes with his life; but there are many instances in which he loses that violently. I don't know what will happen to the WTS leadership, but I believe that the organization is facing its greatest crisis since the death of Charles Taze Russell in 1916. Despite massive defections and the jailing of its Board of Directors that followed Russell's death, the organization not only survived, but thrived. It faced down the Nazi tyrants in Germany and outlasted the communist despots of the Soviet Union. It managed to overcome the bad publicity of its failed prophecies for the twentieth century to enter the twenty-first century intact.
What makes today's situation different, I believe, is that the current leadership is composed of men who do not have the qualities needed to navigate past the shoals and reefs the organization must negotiate to reach safer waters. Past leaders were charismatic, tough-minded, or great organizers. Nobody like that is in charge now. And there remains the simple fact that just as in the past, there is no divine backing for the Society's mission. Without the kind of leadership that served it so well in the past, the current Governing Body is ill-equipped to function in an environment that is as fluid, dynamic, and technilogically challenging as this one. Hence the falling back on the method of cracking down on dissent and the suppression of any kind of challenge.
Maybe the organization will manage to survive. But I think that what is more likely is that we will see some kind of collapse, particularly in the developed world. I won't speculate on what that will mean for the organization as a whole, but I don't think it can survive as it is presently constituted.
Quendi
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Dogpatch
from HERE
The reasons they are going to schism (not die or disappear) is simple. If you think of it in terms of MONEY or MEMBERS, you simply miss the point.
Christian Science has been around for over 100 years and they still seem to have a good amount of money, but who even knows about them? It is only supported by old people with money to support such stupidity. They need a place to put their butts, feel comfortable in their fantasy, and call it "my religion right or wrong." Does that make them powerful? Do your children have to worry about becoming a Christian Scientist??
NO. IT'S NOT "IN", so it cannot attract youthful members, so when the old people die off, so does the money and ignorant theologies. It would have to become a different religion altogether, with virtually no resemblance to the former. The Watch Tower simply has NOTHING TO OFFER the primal being except “FRIENDS” that will rat on you in a New York minute.
There is no welfare system, with the Watch Tower OR Jehovah; and salvation is completely dependent on your loyalty to their demands.
They currently have no realistic program to make money now that the digital age has arrived and magazines are a waste. The programs they have could be audited by the IRS and they could get in big trouble, should the IRS choose to investigate their religion (or ALL religions) carefully.
There are no charismatic leaders, nor does there appear to be a charismatic leader on the way. They tolerate no youthful, inspiring leaders; younger people drift off rapidly and never come back. The Watch Tower, after 130 years of lies, deception and mind control is truly embarrassing in the 21st century. Going door-to-door peddling children’s-level literature is truly an embarrassment to most. For decades, the Watch Tower has gotten very few converts from going door-to-door; it’s all friends, co-workers and their own children, who go out the back door as fast as they get old enough to leave home.
They are carefully inoculating the masses in every Watchtower about any false message coming from some of the new ones claiming to be of the “anointed.” Even the “overlapping generation” explanation of why the date 1914 failed is being rejected by many Witnesses now. Many are actually quite angry at this new deceptive explanation.
Their messages are an insult to almost everyone's intelligence and ability to think for themselves. The hypnotic repetition of reading paragraphs and underlining the “correct” answers in the magazines and books is a modern-day farce.
The current Governing Body is VERY concerned about the power of the Internet and especially Facebook, which most people will continue to use regardless of what the Watchtower says. It is like telling people they can’t use telephones!
College will continue to be disdained which makes them an obvious laughing stock.
So Who Still Buys It?
The ones it appeals to are the older, the lonely and the power hungry—and that is precisely why, at this time, they are castrating all those with a hunger for power before they can get a foothold. FEAR precedes loss of power in the religious world. You aren’t allowed to write and give your own public talks (I made up all of mine, and most were slide shows! That’s how bad they are.) I quit speaking after that; I refused to follow their outlines like a little child. Plus, you are always obligated to inject a warning against the “apostates.” It's like the Children of God and others that educate their own members on how to deal with any kind of "deprogramming", making it harder to talk to them.
Several scenarios are possible:
1. They become more lenient and quit shunning and become a milquetoast organization. Many would stay but they really lose their appeal to new ones who want the strong and exclusive "Armageddon" message; as there are much more exciting and engaging churches out there than a 19th century carnival religion that lies and deceives and is bloodguilty.
2. Then there are the standfasters who actively and forcefully believe in the nearness of Armageddon and accuse the current Watch Tower of being apostate. They will form a few sects, like the Bible Students did and which still exist in several formats.
3. Others may form a more normal semi-orthodox church. Not likely to have much influence.
At any rate, the old guys have been selling property, making sure they still own ALL the kingdom halls, get more aggressive with wills, donations, and asking for money, which will continue to be invested—not in the needy—but in buildings and other money-making schemes.
Randy
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Quendi
Great analysis, Randy. I think that all of us who have posted on this thread agree that the WTS today faces a crisis. We may not be sure what the end result will be. Some of us think it is doomed while others believe it will survive, albeit in an altered form. But whatever betides, the WTS we knew from the twentieth century is gone. If anything emerges to continue the religion in this century, it will have to adapt to reality or become extinct. I know that all of us who have posted here earnestly hope it is the latter that will take place, the sooner the better.
Quendi
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erbie
Well, let's hope not or we will have nothing to talk about and nothing to hate. Well, except Tony Blair of course and a few other particularly nasty individuals.
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dogon
Nope. You would think so but what is really happening is you are seeing the false base the cult is built on. From the very beginning of the cult which had its base in the Millerite movement in the 1840s. Where Miller predicted to know the end of days and it was 1846. People sold farms and did not plant crops and went to the top of some mountain to wait for Jesus and guess what? Its know known as the great disappointment of 1846. Miller was the basis for the current Witness and Adventist movements that are waiting for the end times. They are not the only ones but its a fact that the more wrong a cult is the more the members seem to rally around the cult. Yes some leave as we did, but they are replaced by people who this is all new and exciting to them. The en of the world, WOW now I don't have to go to school and worry about my 401k and I can just play till the end comes.
I personally saw how many people gave up jobs and had just enough money to live to the middle of 1976 because we were told the end was very likely in 75. Stay alive till 75 was the BS. My father in-law worked for GM. He would have retired with a nice 2k a month pension and health care. He left and moved to North Michigan to wait for the end like the rest of the lemmings. Well he ended up scrapping for a living and now he is in Kentucky barely eeking by with his SS. and he still holds on to the belief that the end is neigh. I have seen some very intelligent people who you could not pry this crap out of their heads with an eight foot crow bar. Its like someone JB welded it to their brain stem.
So yes the society has gone though some very weird times and things, like the millions now living will never die, because the end is in 1925 bla bla bla, and you know what? People still support this crap. No its not on the edge of ending because the lemmings will never think for them self in enough numbers to make it collapse. And there is one born every min. as old PT used to say.
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blondie
I lived the pre-1975, post 1975 era....no implode; I lived through the end of the 1914 generation in 1995, no implode; I lived through the WTS association with the UN and the child molestation coverup in the organization revelation...no implode. The RC is going through their own child molestation coverup revelation and no implode there. But in each period some were educated to the facts and left. That's what I hope for.
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traveb
I think the WTS will be okay. They're in the middle of a reorganization right now due to the decline of paper literature and donations, but they'll adjust. They should be able to survive off real estate investments and whatever their future donation stream is.
My prediction is that once tablets are ubiquitous and cheap enough most publishers will transition to digital publications. This will save the WTS a ton of money. Imagine how expensive it is to print and ship literature around the world. Heck, the new Amazon tablet just announced will be $199.
Selling magazines door-to-door is also becoming archaic (not to mention expensive), so perhaps they will encourage publishers to focus on just using the Bible and a tract that points people to the official website if they want to download magazines or get more information. Most people do that now anyways so this should be an easy transition.
The only way I see an implosion is if there some sort of huge scandal that gets a lot of press. It would have to involve high-ranking WTS officials or GB members and be something really outrageous, like a child porn ring, a Bernie Madoff-sized ponzi scheme, or something crazy like that.
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MrFreeze
jehovah's chariot is speeding up! Better hurry up or it will leave you in the dust.
