Help me to answer a few questions for a current JW?

by stillstuckcruz 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • stillstuckcruz
    stillstuckcruz

    I'm talking to this girl right now who is technically still a witness. She doenst go to the meetings anymore but not because she does not feel its the truth. Her parents are no longer witnesses and I want to get her to see the truth about the "truth" BEFORE she decides to go back in. Like many, she has all the guilt of leaving and its only a matter of time before she goes back. She has tried to convice me of its truthfullness even though she only knows the basics of the organization and a little extra. But she has presented me with the following questions:

    Jehovah want's people to gain accurate knowlege right? So where do they gain this knowledge if they are not JW's?

    Jehovah wants his people to be united right? So why should we not disfellowship those who have a difference of opinion? That only creates disuniuty! JW's are the only people who are entirely united on the Earth. Worldly churches can even agree on their own teachings.

    What other group do you know that goes preaching from door to door on the same scale as JW's? The bibe says to preach to every land(bla bla bla). Jehovahs Witnesses are the only group doing that on such a scale. this proves they are the truth.

    Why are all the annointed ONLY in the JW religion? (I used to wonder the same thing until I did research)

    Basically I just need help in answering these questions to her that will the effective. I don't want to sound totally off base to her where she will instantly reject me, reasoning that im just a Satanic apostate seeking to destroy here faith yada yada. Well she knows I dont believe its the truth but I want to explain the answers to her effectively. Any ideas?

  • mouthy
  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Sorry, I might have read this too fast.

    To me it isn't a case of who else goes 'door to door' more than someone else. This proves nothing.

    The scriptures Act 20:20 and the like are not really about the true religion going D2D, they are about hospitality.

    It doesn't matter who goes D2D the most if their message is wrong in the 1st place. The fact is the D2D work isn't effective...and that's the problem.

    Check out the Baptist missionaries, they are out there really helping communities even in lands where Christianity is banned.

    Check out which is the fastest growing religion. You see it isn't who makes a showy display of their works, it's who is getting the work done AND GETTING RESULTS!

  • TimothyT
    TimothyT

    Hi Still stuck cruz! Hope you are doing ok! Heres what i would say to the questions from my own point of view:

    Jehovah want's people to gain accurate knowlege right? So where do they gain this knowledge if they are not JW's?

    The bible states that those taking in accurate knowledge with live eternaly. This knowledge comes from Jesus and is found written in the gospels. :)

    Jehovah wants his people to be united right? So why should we not disfellowship those who have a difference of opinion? That only creates disuniuty! JW's are the only people who are entirely united on the Earth. Worldly churches can even agree on their own teachings.

    The bible teaches in Ephesians that Christ has a congregation in which all are united in one hope, one body, one spirit, etc. I personaly feel as do many scholars that this is a symbolic congregation. The unity your friend is refering to is unity in which all are united in following the Christ. It does not refer to just one religion or just one church but to all individual people who believe and have faith in Jesus.

    What other group do you know that goes preaching from door to door on the same scale as JW's? The bibe says to preach to every land(bla bla bla). Jehovahs Witnesses are the only group doing that on such a scale. this proves they are the truth.

    Not nescesarily true either. The mormons preach a lot. You will also find MANY other religious groups who preach. This isnt nescesarily on the doors but in the town centres, the marketplaces, the places or worship etc. I have seen one man in my nearest city who reaches more people in 5 minutes than my old conregation did in one mornings ministry. I think his preaching is more effective personaly. I do agree that preaching is part of Gods will, but its very ignorant to believe that only JWs do it.

    Why are all the annointed ONLY in the JW religion? (I used to wonder the same thing until I did research)

    Because its an exclusive teaching to JWs. I dont think anyone else has this belief so they dont realy care much for it.

    I dont know if what i have said is right, but this is the way i percieve the answers to these questions. I hope you have found them helpful.

    Timmy xxx

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    I did miss some bits..................

    ''Jehovah want's people to gain accurate knowlege right? So where do they gain this knowledge if they are not JW's?''

    If they want to be Christians they go to the Bible. Jesus said 'I am the way'. If they want to be Muslim they go to the Koran.

    The watchtower claims it teaches from the Bible but when the publications articles are deconstructed we can see logical fallacies and propaganda techniques used. The scriptures 9 times out of 10 are out of context and/or cobbled together to make the watchtower look correct.

    ''Jehovah wants his people to be united right? So why should we not disfellowship those who have a difference of opinion? That only creates disuniuty! JW's are the only people who are entirely united on the Earth. Worldly churches can even agree on their own teachings.''

    Ever heard of agreeing to disagree or Christian freedom? Our relationship is between ourselves and God NOT between ourselves and slavish obedience to 7 men in Brooklyn who keep changing 'truth' to suit themselves. Matt 7:3 is why you don't disfellowship. Disfellowshipping isn't in the Bible. Show me where a 'judicial committee' of 3 elders is in Bible.

    ''Why are all the annointed ONLY in the JW religion? (I used to wonder the same thing until I did research)''

    Even the Governing Body insinuate that thos who claim to be annointed might be nut jobs. It's purely a JW invention based on twiesting scriptures.

  • Greybeard
    Greybeard

    Hi Still Stuck Cruz,

    I like to keep it REAL simple. She has been programed and if you answer her questions verbatim they will go in one ear and out the other just like every other JW. That is the way they are programed. She is asking you these questions to TEACH YOU, not because she doesn't have the answers.

    You need to turn this around and make her do the work. I would share Isaiah 44:26 with her, as regards YHWH it says, "... the One making the word of his servant come true, and the One that carries out completely the counsel of his own messengers." The question is, can this be applied to JW's? Everyone knows the answer to that question. Isn't that the reason most of us no longer believe them? We are tired of them crying wolf! They are False Prophets! Another thing I would ask her is how would she feel if Jehovah killed billions of people who never became JW's because of the JW's many False Prophecies and flip flops? Is Jehovah really that unjust? Maybe even print some of the Watchtower quotes off of jwfacts.com where they did claim to be "Jehovah's prophet" and "mouth piece". Jesus told us we are to have no leader besides him.

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/jehovahs-prophet.php

    Best wishes,

    Greybeard

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Jehovah want's people to gain accurate knowlege right? So where do they gain this knowledge if they are not JW's?

    Assume she gets this from John 17:3. Read it to her and then read 2 Timothy 3:16,17. The knowledge is found in the Bible, not in an organization. If you want to spend some quality time with this discussion, read John chapter 14 together, especially verse 6 ("I am the way..."). Again, it is the Bible for information, Jesus for the Way, and no mention of organized religion. You can even bring out examples of Jesus and the prophets of the OT speaking out against the religious leaders, showing the Bible's clear opinion about organized religion.

    Jehovah wants his people to be united right? So why should we not disfellowship those who have a difference of opinion? That only creates disuniuty! JW's are the only people who are entirely united on the Earth. Worldly churches can even agree on their own teachings.

    This is one that you would be better off challenging the initial premise. Ask her where in the Bible does it say that God requires unity, and then go to those verses and read them in context. After reading them in context, discuss whether the use of the word "unity" implies strict conformity and everyone believing the exact same thing in every detail, or whether it simply means that all Christians should believe in Jesus and his sacrifice.

    What other group do you know that goes preaching from door to door on the same scale as JW's? The bibe says to preach to every land(bla bla bla). Jehovahs Witnesses are the only group doing that on such a scale. this proves they are the truth.

    Mormons. They do it even better than the JWs do, obviously, since they are more than twice the size of the JWs in approximately the same amount of time as an organization. Does this mean they have twice as much of Jehovah's blessing? Of course it doesn't. And again, challenge the premise: Why is door to door significant? Matthew 24:14 makes no mention of specific "door to door" preaching, and when Jesus taught his disciples how to conduct their ministry he specifically said not to be going "from house to house," but to preach everywhere and find a single house to stay in. (Luke 10:7) As for preaching in every land, most Christian denominations have missions all over the world and are quite successful - without going from house to house, too. Find some examples if you think they'll help.

    Why are all the annointed ONLY in the JW religion? (I used to wonder the same thing until I did research)

    Because "the anointed" as a group are an invention of the JW religion. Most of the billions of Christians on this planet feel they are destined to go to heaven. Only the hubris of the Watchtower has closed the door on all but 144,000 people. If you can get your hands on a purple Kingdom Interlinear NWT Bible and look at Revelation 7 together you can show her that the "great crowd" that is "before the throne" is in the SAME PLACE as a bunch of angels that are described as "before the throne" later in the chapter (the Greek word is identical). Also you can look at Revelation 19:1 that says the "great crowd" is in heaven.

    Maybe there are different classes of people who go to heaven, but the invitation to go is open to ALL Christians. 1 Timothy 2:6 says Jesus was a ransom for ALL.

    Even if you plant seeds that only germinate years into the future, you're doing a good thing. Good Luck, Cruz!

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Jehovah want's people to gain accurate knowlege right? So where do they gain this knowledge if they are not JW's?

    An accurate bible, but not the NWT. University libraries packed to the ceiling with religious treatises. The public library and Christian dictionaries and encyclopedias. The radio and sermons by such notables as Dr. Stanley, Alister Begg, Pastor Mike, David Jeremiah, Pastor Swindal. This question begs the question: does the WBTS provide accurate knowledge? She is assuming it's accurate. Information with respect to the accuracy of the NWT bible can be found here:
    http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/new_world_translation_bible_holy_scriptures.html

    Here are some other online resources she can use:
    http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_research_resources.html

    The first and biggest deception perpetuated by the Society is that no one can understand Scripture without their explanation, reading it through their glasses. The JWs assume they alone have accurate knowledge, but that's the issue: Who has accurate knowledge? We know they are wrong about 607, the Trinity doctrine, the alleged 144,000 anointed, their occult past, their false prophecies, the blood prohibition and just about everything else.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Jehovah wants his people to be united right? So why should we not disfellowship those who have a difference of opinion? That only creates disuniuty! JW's are the only people who are entirely united on the Earth. Worldly churches can even agree on their own teachings.

    No one is claiming they don't have the legal right to disfellowship their believers who chose to disagree; Catholics excommunicate, other faiths excommunicate. And there is far less disunity among Christendom than they claim. On core doctrine even Catholics and Protestants have much in common. The reformed churches did not abandon all of Catholicism and the teachings of the church. The kind of unity the Bible speaks of does not dictate a rigid, robot-like, thoughtless conformity. In fact, scripture encourgages discourse, instructing us to test all things, to root out false teachers. Again, this position assumes the JWs are united in the truth, but if it is not the truth, which it is not, then their unity is pointless. It becomes, and is, a dangerous cult. Furthermore, due to the tremendous amount of changes to JW doctrine they can't claim to be united in their teachings since each generation over the past 150 years has seen a different version of the truth. Today's generation has a completely different version of the "truth" from the Russell generation. JWs are far from united.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    What other group do you know that goes preaching from door to door on the same scale as JW's? The bibe says to preach to every land(bla bla bla). Jehovahs Witnesses are the only group doing that on such a scale. this proves they are the truth.

    The JWs assume that Jesus sending out disciples in pairs door-to-door to the Jews alone is the manner in which the truth was to be spread. Web sites are devoted to debunking this notion. Furthermore, if going door-to-door is a sign of being the only true Christians then they must share that role with Mormons. Furthermore, it assumes no other method of spreading the word is acceptable, but that is silly. Television, radio, the Internet, publications, standing on street corners, CHURCH, all these methods of spreading the word are legitimate and useful. JWs make false assumptions about them being the only ones spreading the word because they have stuck their heads in the sand and have fallen for the lie that they alone are preaching the gospel. But preached it is, far and wide, and on a much larger scale than the JWs. Comparatively speaking, JWs don't hold a candle to the preaching work done by Christendom. If they really wanted to spread the word and not just recruit cult members they would be on the radio, on television, etc. Knocking on doors is not "proof" of anything. Whether their teachings are correct is the proof. Whether they are producing accurate fruit is the proof. Whether they actually follow the true teachings of the Bible is the proof of the truth. And because they are wrong about virtually everything in their teachings and application of Scripture, all the door-knocking is pointless and will ultimately find them in disfavor with the Lord. Not all are teachers, not all are apostles, not all are prophets, and no, that doesn't apply only to the 144,000.

    Why are all the annointed ONLY in the JW religion? (I used to wonder the same thing until I did research)

    This is a false assumption. All true Christian believers are anointed. She needs to get over this 144,000 deception. She can start here:

    http://www.144000.110mb.com/index.html

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