I'm relatively 'new' to the concept of thinking for myself....Coming to the conclusion that what I thought was 'the truth' simply isn't brought on many questions for me.... I find it hard to let go of the idea that there is a God, but at the same time I question his existence.
Just a thought that I had today which I would like to share:
Taking into account the universe and the perfect harmony that exists within it... think about the human body... some of the perfect harmony that we see in the universe we can see in the functions of our bodies. i.e. process of breathing, digesting food...etc then i thought...what if this is perfection? Maybe we are perfect?
Sure we may say something stupid from time to time, get sick, make mistakes...etc. But our view of perfection is based on what we were taught to think is perfect...and what is considered perfect today may change tomorrow.
As a JW I had a hard time understanding perfection. If Eve was perfect why would she eat the forbidden fruit? would she not know any better? I mean, really? Why would you eat the fruit?
Then listening to the sisters rant on about how they will lose weight and steal all the hot brothers the new world made me question it even more....does perfection equal being hot? does perfection mean being size 0? If you think so then does that not mean that in the new world all will look the same, talk the same etc...?
Does this make any sense to you???
Maybe we are perfect?
by angel.face 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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angel.face
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Found Sheep
I've had that thought.... I think the idea of JW perfection is insane! It creates guilt and disapointment. Do i think i'm perfect? well maybe just human and that's good enough for me
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mrsjones5
When each of my babies were born I thought they were perfect. I still think they're perfect even when they drive me crazy doing stupid stuff. Just don't tell them I said so. I don't need them getting big heads. ;D
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LostGeneration
The JW idea of perfection is a lie, it is only possible with the removal of free will. Take this for example - How long will it be in JW paradise before people get bored and start "sinning"? 100 years, 1,000? Ok, maybe 50,000 years of gardening and picnics before someone just says "I'm bored as hell and I'm gonna open a casino" What then? God starts killing of the sinners again? If you have free will, then there are always going to be people who don't follow the rules made by the imaginary man in the sky.
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cedars
I've often grappled with the true meaning of perfection. It's now up on a mental shelf marked "to figure out later", along with a whole lot of other cerebral debris from my encounter with the Society.
I was always confused when reading the Genesis account, and in particular, noting the relationship between perfection and "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad". The whole reason Adam and Eve were banished from Eden, according to the account, was because by eating the fruit they had "become like" God and Jesus, and suddenly knew the difference between good and bad. Surely "becoming like" God doesn't make one imperfect? Surely it brings one closer to perfection if anything?
If you read the account, they were banished in order to prevent them from eating from another tree, "The Tree of Life", therefore depriving them of the opportunity to live forever even though they had disobeyed God by eating from the mysterious "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad". If they hadn't been banished, they would have been in the curious position (according to the account) of being "like" God, AND living forever (by continuing to partake of the Tree of Life) - which apparently was an unthinkable outcome to God, hence the banishment.
This aspect of the edenic rebellion is scarcely discussed in the publications, probably because the Society don't have a clue about it themselves.
I bought a book entitled Creation or Evolution - Do we have to choose? by Denis Alexander which bravely attempts to marry the Genesis account with human evolution. One of the theories it presents is that Adam and Eve were simply the first homo sapiens to benefit from a direct relationship with God, and that due to this unique relationship they were introduced to the concept of agriculture, which separated them from the hunter gatherers of their time. As evidence of this (that Adam and Eve weren't alone), Alexander cites the example of Cain's banishment, whereupon he was terrified in case anyone finding him might kill him as an act of vengeance for murdering Abel, implying that there were others around at that time who weren't from his immediate family.
I tend to get filled with confusion when thinking about it all, and pondering on these things for too long tends to raise more questions than answers. It doesn't help to find that scholars are now examining the earliest fragments of the bible in an effort to get as close to the original as possible, and are finding that the bible HAS in fact been tampered with over the ages, with the fulfilment of prophecies being added retroactively, most notably in Jeremiah. I can also recall a scholar (who I met years ago on the ministry) who showed me a book which details the many contradictions and flaws in the gospel accounts. I plan to visit him soon and ask him for the ISBN number, because although I was very dismissive of it all at the time (being a zealous Witness), I find I am much more open minded these days.
I still consider myself a Christian, if only because I believe that Christ existed and I believe in the things that he is purported to have said. I also accept his role as a ransom for my sins, even though I have many questions and doubts about the Bible which I feel are relevant, and no loving God would dismiss them as petulance. I have toyed with being Agnostic, and in many ways I suppose I am already, but I'm not quite at that stage yet. Besides - I figure "what's the rush"?
It's not easy ditching scores of long-treasured beliefs, and human nature is to seek to replace them with something else. However, you're not in a race, and you have plenty of time to do research and discover things for yourself. The best thing is to keep an open mind and not be too dismissive of any ideas, provided they have evidence to back them up. That's the wonderful thing about being free from the Society's influence. YOU get to decide what is true and what isn't, based on evidence that is a bit more substantial than "because we say so" - although you will find yourself getting disappointed if your aim is to acquire total truth within your lifetime. I personally believe it's impossible to know the complete truth about everything within my lifetime. The best I can do is to figure out what ISN'T true, and pass this on. That way, I'm making the search for truth that little bit easier for future generations, including my children, if I have any.
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bioflex
Hmm, are we perfect? well in this state probably not, most of the time when we think about perfection in the human sense in really boiles down to one thing " imortality" . Being free from sickness, pain, aging, and all those things which puts us in a state of fear, unsecurity or degregation.
Well i for one have not had one bit of a problem believing in the existence of God. I mean just look at the things around us, i find it really hard to believe that everything that natural thing that exist in our universe came by some chance. Just imagine the complexity of even the life we have and its pretty easy to realise there is an inteligent design behind it which can only be made possible by a being of much higher existence and knowlegde.
And again looking at how we humans like to innovate, and bring forth new ideas, and above all we really like to take credit for the things we do too. This things make it much more immenent when we look at the idea that we were made in the image and likeness of this supreme being (God).
Now talking about the JW's view of perfection, its really troubling u know, cos all the short comings of man were passed down to us,and sin has been built into our genes and DNA from the time Adam and Eve did eat from the tree. That is why we can never live a perfect life as long as we are in this flesh. Just think about the lusts and desires we have as humans. Its built right into our genes.
Some people think when ever you have bad thoughts it seems some evil angel standing on your left shoulder and telling you to succumb to that evil thought, when in actual facts it comes right from our hearts. The lust of the flesh as the Bible calls it. Again it says all evil thoughts proceed from the heart of men and this is something you cannot just do away with just because you live a good life like they tell you in their perfect earth.
Perfection is something we hope to achieve as human beings, but no matter how we try we can surely not do it on own on. The Holy Bible says God has put the desire to live forver in the hearts of man, and it would surely come to fruition at the appointed time He God has purposed. All we can do is believe in Him and wait for Hime to do the rest.
Again the Bible says in 2Co 5:6 Then being always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord.
Clearly we can see that living in the human paradise earth of the JW's are pratically not biblical.
There are many other places in the bible which talks about the perfection we hope to achieve, but none of them agrees with their view of living forever in our current form.
Would have loved to go on but gotta run now, hope i helped a bit, waiting to hear what you guys have to say too.
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Philadelphia Ponos
It doesn't help to find that scholars are now examining the earliest fragments of the bible in an effort to get as close to the original as possible, and are finding that the bible HAS in fact been tampered with over the ages, with the fulfilment of prophecies being added retroactively, most notably in Jeremiah.
Do you have link or anything that shows evidence of this?
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lostandconfused
I think the JW view of perfection is ridiculous. I've often heard sisters talking about how they will be skinny again, with perfect hair, and perfect teeth. I mean really, does being skinny mean you have the perfect body? I'd prefer to stay curvy over skinny. Some men like skinny women, some like curvy, and some like bigger women. Just because we would be perfect in the new world, (not like it's gonna happen) I think everyone would have different looks as well as different abilities and interests. I think it's absurd to think that everyone is going to have six pack abs and be good at doing everything...this is often what you hear from JWs.
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andys
This is one of the bible scholars that I have found very interesting about the research he has done on the bible, this is the link:
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cedars
Philadelphia Ponos - thanks for raising that question, I meant to insert a link when I made that statement. Here is the relevant discussion on this board, which itself contains a link to the news article: