Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-16-2011 WT Study (PEACE)

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  • blondie
    blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-16-11 WT Study (AUGUST 15, 2011, pages 23-27)(PEACE)

    Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS

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    jv = Proclaimers book

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    JEHOVAH—“THE GOD WHO GIVES PEACE”

    “May the God who gives peace be with all of you.”—ROM. 15:33.

    OPENING COMMENTS

    Does this article discuss problems between women?

    Is that because they are only viewed as property?

    Or this concept; can you imagine apologizing to your molester? “I’m sorry, I dressed provocatively and tempted you; I understand that you were only trying to show love…”

    *** w97 1/1 p.28***

    What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around.

    *** w97 12/1 p.20 par.15 ‘Continue Forgiving One AnotherFreely’***

    No Christian who has been a victim of extremely unjust, detestable, or heinous treatment should feel forced to forgive, or pardon, a wrongdoer who is not repentant. —Psalm 139:21, 22.

    ***w02 11/1 p. 6 Apologizing—A Key to Making Peace ***

    The issue is, not so much who is right and who is wrong, but who will take the initiative to make peace. When the apostle Paul noticed that the Christians in Corinth were taking fellow servants of God to secular courts over such personal differences as financial disagreements, he corrected them: “Why do you not rather let yourselves be wronged? Why do you not rather let yourselves be defrauded?” (1 Corinthians 6:7) Although Paul said this to discourage fellow Christians from airing their personal differences in secular courts, the principle is clear: Peace among fellow believers is more important than proving who is right and who is wrong. Keeping this principle in mind makes it easier to apologize for a wrong that someone thinks we have committed against him or her.

    START OF ARTICLE

    1, 2. What tense situation is described in Genesis

    chapters 32 and 33, and what was the outcome?

    THE place is close to Penuel, near the torrent

    valley of Jabbok on the east side of

    the river Jordan. Esau has heard that his

    twin brother, Jacob, is returning home. Even

    though 20 years have passed since Esau sold

    his right as firstborn to his brother, Jacob

    fears that his brother may still harbor murderous

    grudge against him. Accompanied by

    400 men, Esau marches toward his estranged

    brother. Anticipating a hostile reception, Jacob

    sends Esau wave upon wave of gifts

    amounting to over 550 domestic animals.

    With each group of animals, Jacob’s servants

    tell Esau that they are a gift from his

    brother.

    COMMENTS

    So is the WTS saying that if a brother has a grudge against you that you can shower him with expensive things and that will smooth things out. Does Jacob think that giving his brother things will take the place of an apology? Does the WTS say not to apologize if you aren’t wrong?

    Jesus was “hated without a cause” (Psalm 69:4) did he apologize the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes?

    Jacob evidently has gone 20 years without talking with his brother; is that the way to handle disputes. Why hasn’t Jacob sought peace with Esau before he came home?

    Where was Esau when he wasn’t “home”?

    Why does Esau have 400 men? Was he coming home in peace or only until Jacob showered him with expensive gifts?

    2 The moment finally arrives! As Jacob

    courageously walks toward Esau, he bows

    down—not once but seven times. Jacob has

    already taken the most important measure

    he can take to soften the heart of his brother.

    Jacob has prayed to Jehovah for deliverance

    from Esau’s hand. Does Jehovah answer this

    prayer? Yes. “Esau went running to meet

    him,” the Bible tells us, “and he began to

    embrace him and fall upon his neck and kiss

    him.”—Gen. 32:11-20; 33:1-4.

    COMMENTS

    Can you imagine an elder, CO, DO, bowing down to a brother or sister that was offended even once, let alone 7 times?

    How many people at the hall who had a grudge against you would have run to you and hugged and kissed you after “solving” a problem?

    How many would admit a mistake even when they were wrong?

    3. What do we learn from the account of Jacob and

    Esau?

    3 The account of Jacob and Esau shows

    that we should make earnest and practical

    efforts to settle matters when problems arise

    that may threaten the peace we enjoy within

    the Christian congregation. Jacob sought to

    make peace with Esau, but not because Jacob

    had erred against his brother and owed him

    an apology. No, Esau had despised his birthright

    and had sold it to Jacob for a bowl of

    stew. (Gen. 25:31-34; Heb. 12:16) However,

    the way Jacob approached Esau illustrates

    the extent to which we should be willing to

    go to preserve the peace with our Christian

    brothers. It also shows that the true God

    blesses our prayerful efforts to make peace.

    The Bible contains numerous other examples

    that instruct us to be peacemakers.

    COMMENTS

    Practical efforts = give expensive gifts to those you have offended

    How many congregation grudges in your congregation were long standing?

    I knew one that lasted 50 years and only ended when one of them died, 50 years of never talking to each other.

    Also, unless you are an elder, CO, DO, etc., you must apologize when you are right…or rather no one is complete without fault, yes, because you were born and happen to go to the same congregation, it is partly your fault.

    *** w02 11/1 p.6 Apologizing—A Key to Making Peace***

    Indeed, when two humans are at odds, there may be a measure of blame on both sides, since both are imperfect and prone to err. This usually calls for mutual concessions.

    What was the most important step taken by Jacob in making peace with Esau?

    A Superlative Example to Exhort Us

    4. What is God’s provision for saving mankind

    from sin and death?

    4 The most outstanding example of a

    peacemaker is Jehovah—“the God who

    gives peace.” (Rom. 15:33) Think of the extent

    to which Jehovah went to enable us to

    have a peaceful relationship with him. As

    sinful descendants of Adam and Eve, we deserve

    “the wages [that] sin pays.” (Rom. 6:

    23) Still, out of his great love, Jehovah arranged

    for our salvation by sending his beloved

    Son from heaven to be born as a

    perfect human. And the Son willingly complied.

    He allowed himself to be put to death

    by God’s enemies. (John 10:17, 18) The true

    God resurrected his beloved Son, who afterward

    presented to the Father the value of his

    shed blood, which would be a ransom to

    save repentant sinners from eternal death.

    —Read Hebrews 9:14, 24.

    COMMENTS

    Outstanding peacemaker = God? What about Sodom and Gomorrah; except for the mob outside Lot’s house, where is there evidence that the rest of the people were warned? And remember every child and baby died that day…eternally. Why didn’t their deaths pay for their sins as Romans 6:23 says? Why must their death be eternal unlike Pharaoh and his armies, etc., etc.

    In what way did God “arrange for their salvation” by sending Jesus. What room was there for repentance for the men, women, children and babies of Sodom & Gomorrah, except for the mob outside Lot’s house?

    5, 6. How does Jesus’ shed blood affect the damaged

    relationship between God and sinful mankind?

    5 How does the provision of the ransom

    sacrifice of God’s Son affect the damaged relationship

    between God and sinful mankind?

    “The chastisement meant for our

    peace was upon him,” states Isaiah 53:5,

    “and because of his wounds there has been

    a healing for us.” Instead of being viewed as

    God’s enemies, obedient humans can now

    enjoy a peaceful relationship with him. “By

    means of [Jesus] we have the release by ransom through

    the blood of that one, yes, the

    forgiveness of our trespasses.”—Eph.1:7.

    COMMENTS

    Obedient humans = only jws

    *** w89 9/1 p.19 par.7***

    Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the “flesh” that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history.

    Peaceful relationship with God = notice there is no or little mention of having a relationship with God; in the 2010 WT-CD there is only one reference to nonanointed jws having a relationship with Jesus; only anointed jws are spoken of as having that privilege.

    Brackets again = [Jesus] (that one, NWT) [of] our trespasses in hardbound NWT; it appears that the WTS has trained jws for so many years to depend on one verse citations, the rank and file jw no longer knows how to read the context

    6 The Bible states: “God saw good for all

    fullness to dwell in [Christ].” This is because

    Christ is the key figure in the fulfilling of

    God’s purpose. And what is Jehovah’s purpose?

    It is “to reconcile again to himself all

    other things by making peace through the

    [shed] blood” of Jesus Christ. “All other

    things” that God thus brings into a peaceful

    relationship with him are “the things in the

    heavens” and “the things upon the earth.”

    What are they?—Read Colossians 1:19, 20.

    COMMENTS

    [Christ] = “him” (The NWT has an asterisk to refers to Lit. “he”)

    [other] = why no brackets in hardbound NWT?

    (Colossians 1:19-20) 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.

    Why the snippets, why not quote in toto?

    Remember this scripture is not reviewed the same by the WTS as other religions.

    *** w50 10/15 p.396 par.22***

    But now trinitarians confront you with Paul’s words at Colossians 1:15-20 according to the King James Version . They argue that, if Jesus Christ was before all things and all things consist by him and were created by him and for him, then he must be the very same as the Almighty, Most High God, or be one person with God. But we must harmonize these verses with all the other scriptures that Jesus Christ was God’s Son and a creation of His. So the Greek word here must be rendered in the sense of “all other”. Note, then, how the New World Translation blasts the trinitarian argument:

    7. What are “the things in the heavens” and “the

    things upon the earth” that are brought into a

    peaceful relationship with God?

    7 The provision of the ransom makes it

    possible for anointed Christians, who “have

    been declared righteous” as sons of God, to

    “enjoy peace with God.” (Read Romans

    5:1.) They are referred to as “the things in

    the heavens” because they have a heavenly

    hope and “are to rule as kings over the

    earth” and serve as priests to God. (Rev. 5:

    10) On the other hand, “the things upon

    the earth” refer to repentant humans, who

    will eventually attain to everlasting life on

    earth.—Ps. 37:29.

    COMMENTS

    CARROT ON THE STICK = everlasting life on earth

    Repentant humans = only jws

    Notice that only anointed have the possibility of being considered sons of God. Non-anointed will only be adopted into God’s family after passing the final test by Satan at the end of the 1,000 year reign. Until then they are viewed only as “friends.” I remember anointed saying that Jesus was their brother now but not ours. That they were sons of God but we had to wait. The WTS even refers to non-anointed jws as grandchildren of God.

    *** w95 8/1 p.13 par.19***

    Even though the other sheep are not directly included among the “sons” spoken of at Isaiah 54:13, they are blessed with being taught by Jehovah. Therefore, they properly address God as “Father” because he will, in effect, be their Grandfather through the “Eternal Father,” Jesus Christ.—Matthew 6:9; Isaiah 9:6.

    8. How are you affected by reflecting on the extent

    to which Jehovah went to enable mankind to be at

    peace with him?

    8 Expressing his heartfelt gratitude for Jehovah’s

    provision, Paul wrote to the anointed

    Christians in Ephesus: “God, who is rich

    in mercy, . . . made us alive together with the

    Christ, even when we were dead in trespasses—

    by undeserved kindness you have been

    saved.” (Eph. 2:4, 5) Whether we have a

    heavenly hope or an earthly hope, we are

    deeply indebted to God for his mercy and

    undeserved kindness. Our hearts are filled

    with gratitude as we consider the extent

    to which Jehovah went to make it possible

    for mankind to enjoy peace with him.

    When we are confronted with situations

    that threaten the peaceful unity of the congregation,

    should not our appreciatively reflecting

    on God’s example move us to be

    peacemakers?

    COMMENTS

    Where is Jesus? (WJ) “Our hearts are filled with gratitude as we consider the extent to which Jehovah went to make…”

    In my case, the elders lied repeatedly and were not ashamed when being caught, never admitting it, let alone apologizing or making amends. Should we have apologized to the elders and said we were mistaken about their lies? How dangerous is that?

    Learning From the Ways of Abraham and Isaac

    9, 10. How did Abraham prove himself to be a

    peacemaker in dealing with Lot when tension arose

    among their herdsmen?

    9 Concerning the patriarch Abraham, the

    Bible states: “ ‘Abraham put faith in Jehovah,

    and it was counted to him as righteousness,’

    and he came to be called ‘Jehovah’s

    friend.’ ” (Jas. 2:23) Abraham’s faith was

    made evident by his peace-loving ways. For

    example, as Abraham’s flocks and herds

    increased, tension developed between his

    herdsmen and those of his nephew Lot.

    (Gen. 12:5; 13:7) The obvious solution was

    that Abraham and Lot separate. How would

    Abraham deal with this delicate situation?

    Instead of using his age and status with

    God to tell his nephew what to do, Abraham

    proved himself to be a true peacemaker.

    COMMENTS

    Remember Abraham’s peace-loving ways had him send Hagar and Ishmael into the desert and they would have perished if God had not stepped in.

    Remember Abraham’s peace-loving ways had not strengthened his faith that God would provide an heir without having to take Hagar as a concubine.

    Remember Abraham’s peace-loving ways would have had faith that God would protect him from Abimelech’s possibly killing him to take Sarah as his wife and putting Sarah in the position of being violated.

    How many elders, Cos, DOs, GB members, etc., do you know that took the hind end of a situation not using their age or status?

    10 “Please, do not let any quarreling continue

    between me and you and between my

    herdsmen and your herdsmen,” Abraham

    told his nephew, “for we men are brothers.”

    The patriarch continued: “Is not the whole

    land available to you? Please, separate from

    me. If you go to the left, then I will go to the

    right; but if you go to the right, then I will go

    to the left.” Lot chose the most fertile part

    of the land, but Abraham held no grudge

    against him. (Gen. 13:8-11) Later on when

    Lot was taken captive by invading armies,

    Abraham did not hesitate to rescue his nephew.—

    Gen.14:14-16.

    COMMENTS

    How many fights did you know of in your congregation? Four-hour screaming matches between the elders? Elders’ wives fighting over who had the privilege to select the wine glass, flowers, china for the Memorial? The sisters in field service ripping on one or the other sister (not there to hear of course) as to how they dressed, nail polish, heel height, not at enough meetings, not out in field service enough, unruly children, sluts, under the guise of merely wanting to “help” but never talking to them privately to “help”?

    I remember a brother seeking reinstatement had no car. The bus line ended 1 mile before the KH and it was coooooooooold that winter. We finally picked him up and took him home and told the elders we could no longer consider ourselves Christians if we passed him again. They grudgingly said we could (we would have continued anyway) and warned us about him. They should have warned us about their loveless, unchristian lives.

    11. How did Abraham pursue peace with his Philistine

    neighbors?

    11 Think also of how Abraham pursued

    peace with his Philistine neighbors in the

    land of Canaan. The Philistines had “seized

    by violence” a well of water dug by Abraham’s

    servants at Beer-sheba. How would a

    man who had rescued his nephew by overcoming

    the four kings who had captured

    him respond to this act? Rather than fight

    back and repossess his well, Abraham chose

    to remain silent about the matter. In time,

    the Philistine king visited Abraham to make

    a covenant of peace. Only after he got Abraham to

    swear to him to be kind to the Philistine

    king’s offspring did Abraham bring up

    the matter of his stolen well. Shocked to hear

    about this, the king restored the well to

    Abraham. As for Abraham, he continued to

    live peacefully as an alien resident in the

    land.—Gen. 21:22-31, 34.

    COMMENTS

    I doubt that even Abraham was foolhardy enough to think he could take on the Philistines in a fight, even with God’s help. He was going to be there the rest of his life.

    Do you think that the WTS is worried about the lack of peace between jws or jws making trouble with non-jws because of an arrogant stance that God is on their side?

    12, 13. (a) How did Isaac follow the example of his

    father? (b) How did Jehovah bless Isaac’s peace loving

    ways?

    12 Abraham’s son Isaac followed the

    peace-loving ways of his father. This is evident

    from the manner in which Isaac dealt

    with the Philistines. Because of a famine in

    the land, Isaac moved his household north,

    from Beer-lanai-roi in the arid region of the

    Negeb into the more fertile territory of the

    Philistines at Gerar. There Jehovah blessed

    Isaac with bumper crops and increased his

    livestock. The Philistines began to envy him.

    Not wanting Isaac to prosper as his father

    had prospered, the Philistines stopped up

    the wells that Abraham’s servants had dug

    in the region. Finally, the Philistine king told

    Isaac to ‘move from their neighborhood.’

    The peaceful man Isaac complied.—Gen. 24:

    62; 26:1, 12-17.

    COMMENTS

    So how does this apply? Jealous jws in the congregation who spread rumors and lies to get other jws in trouble?

    Should jws not be too caring of their property and be willing to give it up to any non-jw who wants it?

    13 After Isaac moved his encampment farther

    away, his shepherds dug another well.

    Philistine shepherds claimed that the water

    was theirs. Like his father, Abraham, Isaac

    did not fight over a well. Instead, Isaac again

    had his men dig a well. The Philistines also

    claimed this one for themselves. For the sake

    of peace, Isaac moved his large encampment

    away to yet another location. There his servants

    dug a well that Isaac named Rehoboth.

    In time, he moved to the more fertile region

    of Beer-sheba, where Jehovah blessed him

    and told him: “Do not be afraid, because I

    am with you, and I will bless you and multiply

    your seed on account of Abraham my

    servant.”—Gen. 26:17-25.

    COMMENTS

    Why then does the WTS have so many lawsuits going on, basically fighting over property?

    Why don’t they move to another location like Isaac?

    14. How did Isaac prove himself to be a peacemaker

    when the Philistine king sought to make a covenant

    of peace with him?

    14 Isaac surely had the ability to fight for

    his right to use all the wells that his servants

    had dug. After all, the Philistine king and his

    officials came to visit him in Beer-sheba and

    sought to make a covenant of peace with

    him, saying: “We have unmistakably seen

    that Jehovah has proved to be with you.”

    Still, for the sake of peace, Isaac had more

    than once opted to move rather than fight.

    This time too Isaac proved himself to be

    a peacemaker. The historical record states:

    “He made a feast for [his visitors] and they

    ate and drank. Next morning they were early

    in rising and they made sworn statements

    one to the other. After that Isaac sent them

    away. . . in peace.”—Gen. 26:26-31.

    COMMENTS

    So Isaac had the ability to fight for his right…but he didn’t.

    Why does the WTS fight then?

    Learning From the Son Whom Jacob Loved the Most

    15. Why were Joseph’s brothers unable to speak

    peacefully to him?

    15 Isaac’s son Jacob grew up to be “a

    blameless man.” (Gen. 25:27) As discussed

    at the outset, Jacob sought to make peace

    with his brother, Esau. Undoubtedly, Jacob

    had benefited from the peaceable example

    of his father, Isaac. What can be said about

    Jacob’s sons? Of his 12 sons, Joseph was the

    one whom Jacob loved the most. Joseph was

    an obedient, respectful son who cared deeply

    for his father’s interests. (Gen. 37:2, 14)

    However, Joseph’s older brothers became so

    jealous of him that they were unable to

    speak peacefully to him. Cruelly, they sold

    Joseph into slavery and tricked their father

    into believing that Joseph had been killed

    by a wild beast.—Gen. 37:4, 28, 31-33.

    COMMENTS

    Jacob was a blameless man; but still he took another wife (because his father-in-law tricked him), but then took 2 more concubines (same as wives legally) because his wives were have a “who can have the most children” contest. Imagine if your wife “forced” you to have sex to another woman?

    Note here that it was not non-believers that sold Joseph, it was his brothers.

    16, 17. How did Joseph prove himself to be a peace loving

    brother to his siblings?

    16 Jehovah proved to be with Joseph. In

    time, Joseph became Egypt’s prime minister

    —second in power only to Pharaoh. When a

    severe famine brought Joseph’s brothers to

    Egypt, they did not even recognize him in

    his official Egyptian attire. (Gen. 42:5-7)

    How easy it would have been for Joseph to

    repay his brothers for their cruelty to him

    and to their father! Rather than seek revenge,

    however, Joseph tried to make peace

    with them. When it became clear that his

    brothers had repented, he made himself

    known to them, saying: “Do not feel hurt

    and do not be angry with yourselves because

    you sold me here; because for the

    preservation of life God has sent me ahead

    of you.” Then he proceeded to kiss all his

    brothers and to weep over them.—Gen. 45:

    1, 5, 15.

    COMMENTS

    How many reading here realize that Joseph married the daughter of an Egyptian priest, and had 2 sons that eventually inherited two portions of Israel?

    In this story, where do you see the attitudes of elders on judicial committees when it comes to wrong-doing and reinstatement? Do you see the same mercy Joseph showed. Joseph took the first step not as elders make a member wait 6 months and put a letter in the contribution box before even considering their repentance. Did Joseph send them away saying it would be another 20 years before he would forgive?

    17 After the death of their father, Jacob,

    Joseph’s brothers thought that Joseph

    might take vengeance on them. As they expressed

    their fears to him, Joseph “burst

    into tears” and replied: “Do not be afraid. I

    myself shall keep supplying you and your

    little children with food.” Peace-loving Joseph

    “comforted them and spoke reassuringly

    to them.”—Gen. 50:15-21.

    COMMENTS

    Have you had the experience of an elder who “holds back” only because he is afraid of a CO or another elder in the congregation, from wreaking his vengeance. Do you have jws with elephant memories?

    “Written for Our Instruction”

    18, 19. (a) How have you benefited from considering

    the examples of peacemakers discussed in this

    article? (b) What will we consider in the next article?

    18 “All the things that were written aforetime were written

    for our instruction, “wrote Paul, “that through our endurance and

    through the comfort from the Scriptures we

    might have hope.” (Rom.15:4) How have we

    benefited from considering not only the superlative

    example of Jehovah but also the Scriptural accounts of

    Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph?

    COMMENTS

    The WTS takes this literally since Paul was only talking about the OT.

    19 Does not appreciatively reflecting on

    what Jehovah has done to heal the damaged

    relationship between him and sinful mankind

    move us to do all we can to pursue

    peace with others? The examples of Abraham,

    Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph show that parents

    can have a good influence on their children.

    Moreover, these accounts also show

    that Jehovah blesses the efforts of those who

    try to make peace. No wonder Paul refers to

    Jehovah as “the God who gives peace”!

    (Read Romans 15:33; 16:20.) The following

    article will consider why Paul stressed the

    need for us to pursue peace and how we can

    be peacemakers.

    COMMENTS

    No relationship with Jesus? What is Jesus role in this healing?

    Peace in the congregation is modeled by the elders…what was your experience?

    What Did You Learn?

    ? In what way did Jacob seek peace

    when he was about to meet Esau?

    ? How have you been affected by

    what Jehovah did to enable mankind

    to be at peace with him?

    ? What have you learned from the

    examples of the peacemakers

    Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and

    Joseph?

    CLOSING COMMENTS

    Next Week, PURSUE PEACE.

    What do you do if you have been wronged in some LARGE way? Financial fraud, theft, your child was molested….Is it just a case of forgiveness?

    Love, Blondie

  • Ding
    Ding

    Lessons on love and forgiveness from the organization that has convinced its people that shunning is an act of love. Hmmmm.

  • Poztate
    Poztate

    Hi Blondie... Thanks for the recap

    I do try to gag......my way though them once in a while.

    Just a question (maybe unrelated)

    Quote ... What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable.

    You could be a "child molester" but you couldn't "sin" against the holy spirit... What was the "unforgiveable sin"™ as defined by the WTBTS™

    Was it calling little freddy franz a POO..POO..HEAD or something more exciting ?

  • blondie
    blondie

    Based on the bible the only person that knows what the unforgivable sin is, is God. The WTS has danced around it many times. Since forgiveness of sin comes from the heavens and not Bethel, only he knows.

    The Israelite soliders killed non-Israelite children on God's command....it is hard to say what is unforgivable.

    But I don't feel that a victim has to forgive their molester ever.

    Blondie

  • Quarterback
    Quarterback

    Thanks, Blondie...an interesting study this week. Making peace with DA, and DF ones just didn't seem to fit into this lesson.

  • Poztate
    Poztate

    Thanks for the reply Blondie..

    I asked my "elder" Father about this "doctrine" in the early 90's and he couldn't explain it to me either.

    A nice "stick"to hold over members heads.. Afraid of doing anything just in case they piss off jehovah™

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Ah, Blondie's thread!!!

    Thanks, Blondie!!

    orange calla lillies

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    " The issue is, not so much who is right and who is wrong, but who will take the initiative to make peace. ..."

    Oh, brother....

    That takes me back - and not in a PLEASANT way, either... Every time my bratty younger brother used to pull some nasty stunt, Momsie Dearest, being a good little girl, good little Christian, good little victim of a Middle-Eastern male god-dominated system, wouldn't bother listening to what had actually HAPPENED - meaning she'd totally discount MY side of the situation, since I was a mere 'female'...

    All she was interested in was keeping the peace - enforced by an imposed injustice...

    Zid

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "...Jacob sought to make peace with Esau, but not because Jacob had erred against his brother and owed him an apology. No, Esau had despised his birthright and had sold it to Jacob for a bowl of stew. ..."

    First of all, we only have Jacob's side of this story...

    Secondly, if Esau had 400 men, and all those gifts that Jacob sent, then he wasn't doing too badly, himself...

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    "...Whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope, we are deeply indebted to God for his mercy and undeserved kindness. Our hearts are filled with gratitude as we consider the extent to which Jehovah went to make it possible for mankind to enjoy peace with him. When we are confronted with situations that threaten the peaceful unity of the congregation, should not our appreciatively reflectingon God's example move us to be peacemakers?..."

    In other words, roll over and give up without a fight...

    Don't make waves...

    And whatever you do, DON'T GO TO THE POLICE!!

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