Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank (page 2)

DesirousOfChange

It just seems like such a potentially explosive issue for loyal JWs if it ever leaks out - the WTS legal team saying "the faithful and discreet slave does not exist, it's just a theological arrangement".

Theocratic Warfare. That's how loyal JWs will view it. Just like Abraham stating that Sarah was his sister.

It's OK to twist the facts. In fact, it's OK to LIE......to anyone who does not deserve to know the truth of a matter.

It's in the 10 Commandments. Thou shall not lie (except to those who do not deserve to know the truth).

DOC

james_woods

So let me ask again - is it the position of the Watchtower Society that elders (and others - I guess that means MSs) should go ahead and get the cards?

Everything changed upon learning that the Watchtower Society (WTS) had instructed elders and others in the congregations to comply with the working with children laws and to actually obtain their working with children cards. Getting the WTS to comply with the laws after three years of refusing to comply was quite an achievement for Steven Unthank. With this development who would not want to sit in on the next court hearing and witness the defense tactics the WTS and their legal team launched to get themselves out of the potential crisis they got themselves into.

sir82

Yeah I get the "theocratic warfare" argument, and I agree that it is likely what most JWs will think of.

But....

The classic example of "thecratic warfare" is a jackbooted fascist thug beating down your door and asking you the location of your JW friends. The "theocratic warfare" angle says you can lie to him.

It's quite a different thing to publicly, in a court of law, for the "faithful and discreet slave" to deny itself. Shouldn't they be proudly proclaiming that Jesus has put them in charge of all his "belongings"? Aren't they, in effect, denying Christ?

Isn't that what Peter did 3 times?

Didn't 1st century Christians get thrown to the lions, rather than deny the Christ?

Didn't JWs in the 40's get thrown into concentration camps, rather than deny Jehovah?

Yeah, "theocratic warfare" will be the 1st thought for the typical JW, but late at night, when no one else is around, and no one reads their thoughts....won't the questions I posed above come to their minds? At least some of them?

JW GoneBad

Hey Barbara, I like your play on words in your sub-heading entitled:

"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?" (Mat 24:45)

Damned if I know!

Thank you.

steve2

Many thanks for the update Barbara. I had not expected things to move so quickly or in the direction they have now taken.

Perhaps someone who has a better grasp of judicial proceedings than me can answer James Woods very pertinent question. I too would have thought if any party taken to court says, "Okay we'll comply with your request and follow the secular law" that the course of the proceedings then changes - but how it represents a "potential crisis" eludes me.

I also would be interested to know how current JWs react to this development - my guess is that they would not be too disturbed to the point of speaking out. I remind myself that the Watchtower has an extremely well-practised reputation for putting the strangest most positive "theocratic" spin on events that threaten to expose its quasi-legal mendacities.

sir82

Hey, here's a question:

Why isn't this case on www.jw-media.org?

Isn't this "persecution directed at Jehovah's Witnesses"?

Shouldn't the world know about the cruel and unusual treatment the JWs are suffering from this court case?

They've got a map full of cases of "mistreatment and harassment of Jehovah's Witnesses" there - why isn't there a big ol' pin pointing at Australia?

Mickey mouse

I too would have thought if any party taken to court says, "Okay we'll comply with your request and follow the secular law" that the course of the proceedings then changes - but how it represents a "potential crisis" eludes me.

I think the answer is that for years they were not compliant and for that there are fines.

MeanMrMustard

Again, I think it would be very nice to get a copy of this letter sent to the Victoria congregations to comply with the Working with Children Act of 2005. There has to be a copy somewhere... the reason I say this is because a lot of those letters are signed as "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses". It would be harder to deny that the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" does not operate in Victoria if the message to comply with the WWC act came from the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"

I always thought that the FDS was the "theological arrangement" of sorts, used to give spritual food at the proper time. I don't think its a big surprise to say this. However, to simultaneusly say that the FDS "doesn't exist" seems to mean (at least to me), that the "theological arrangment" that all JWs are picturing in their minds is wrong. It's not a *real* arrangment, its not anything based in reality. Its just an "arrangment" on paper......... which is not a surprise to me, but to hear it just said in court is amazing.

I like the subheading in the post: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?" ...LOL - it seems nobody knows, not even the WT. Very funny.

Is anyone recording these hearings? Is anyone allowed to? That would be very awesome - to hear the gasps from JWs

MeanMrMustard

baltar447

The way I understand it is each violation carries a fine with it. So they are still on the hook for ignoring and failing to act. Think if it this way: Just because a company stops dumping toxic waste doesn't mean they can't be prosecuted for dumping for the past 3 years.

Shrugged

I can´t believe this! The watchtowers own lawyers actually is denying the existance of the fds. And by doing so, they(according to the jw) deny christ. Hence, THEY are the antichrist. Omg it´s so sad this is going to escape the minds of Jdubs.

Victoria, Australia: Report on Oct. 11th hearing involving Steven Unthank

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