Luke 21:8 - Who Should We Really Avoid? (page 2)

Nice points, Darth. I've been refering to that passage for a while, when dealing with elders demanding I obey them. I've never sat down and laid it out point-by-point, though; it's a very powerful scripture when you really look at it. I may incorporate some of that into a paper I've already written you might be interested in for additional ammunition when confronted by power-hungry elders and idolatrous JWs.

Do Christians Have Human Leaders?

Listener

Great read Darth. Just one question about this comment

"Some teach that this part of Jesus’ prophecy was fulfilled only in the first century prior to the fall of Jerusalem and not applicable to Christians in modern times"

I am wondering if the JWs teach this or in fact if you know how they interpret what you are speaking about, so as to exclude themselves?

Darth Rutherford

Thanks all for your kind remarks! Clairty... I don't mind, please make as many copies as you need.

Also, I would love to hear any experiences where this scripture is used and explained (taught) to an active Witness. I've used it twice (though I have to be discreet) and totally stunned both Witnesses. They honestly have no reply to this one.

Won't Leave... looking forward to reading your paper. Thanks for the link!

Sab... I hear you loud and clear, my friend. Point taken... however, that might be better suited for a later discussion regarding the Sign of the Last Days. I don't want to digress, but I do believe the Apostle Peter makes it clear in the context of 2 Peter chapter 3 that the Last "Days" (plural) could last for centuries and even possibly millennia. (one "day" - singular - is with Jehovah as a thousand years -vs.8) The scriptures do show that the "Last Days" (and sign of Christ's presence) actually began in the first century after the resurrection and have been continuing on since. Nevertheless, in my essay I was trying to logically show that one cannot "cherry pick" which parts of Jesus' sign is applicable or not... something the WT is obviously doing in reference to Luke 21:8. It's all or nothing. True, there have always been wars, earthquakes, pestilence, etc., even before Christ came; however, maybe Jesus was simply using these naturally occuring events to now serve as sobering reminders to his disciples of the Last Days, his presence, as well as the eventual day of judgment and destruction. Much like the rainbow, another naturally occuring event, was to be an everlasting reminder of God's promise for mankind. (Gen 9:13) He is a superior being, but he always used simple illustrations and concepts to help his disciples understand and remember complex things.

Again, everyone has been so warm and hospitible. You know... I would already be in a judicial committee if I said these things at the KH.

Darth Rutherford

Listener... yes, the Witnesses apply this part of Luke 21:8 to the first century prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome. They believe that Jesus sign had a first century fulfillment for Jerusalem, but also a modern-day fulfillment since 1914 (when Christ was made King of God's Kingdom). However, they conveniently forget to include Luke 21:8 in the modern day fulfillment. Actually, in the Watchtower library, you'll find very, very, very little mentioned about Luke 21:8... and of the few references used... it's always in reference to the first century.

sizemik

Personally I've developed a huge level of skepticism over the true meaning and application of "sacred" writings . . . which I think Sab was also alluding to.

However, this is watertight purely from a scholastic point of view.

I'm looking forward at this point for the next time a pair of book-bag toting individuals come up my driveway . . . I can't wait.

Thank you

Luke 21:8 - Who Should We Really Avoid?

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