by angel.face 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Never discuss doctrine.
Speaking of doctrine, that sounds a lot like it.
When a Witness asks for an unscriptual teaching to be shown to them they very well may be in a state where they could hear anything. At that point it could be beneficial to "discuss doctrine" because of their awakeness. The unindoctrinated person should decide how "awake" they are.
-Sab
Thanks so much.
Undercover - you may be right...but maybe I can force something to happen to make him think?
DOC - I love talking about how the borg is 'directed' by Holy Spirit ... he never has a defence for that.
Sab - awesome, thank you for the info
MS - I will try, that's a great suggestion
LWT - I know I know :) My husband thinks I am a follower of Hassans. Actually the 'what would need to happen for you to question your belief system? ' question is straight out of one of his talks on youtube.
Cagefighter - This may be the case, but at least I tried...u know?
MM - I will check these out
Sab - I agree
And once again, thank you!!
Actually the 'what would need to happen for you to question your belief system? ' question is straight out of one of his talks on youtube.
Yes, thank you for reminding me. That is one of Hassan's questions.
Here's a question/direction you might take. Talk about the Mormons.
Questions, such as: "What would a dedicated Mormon have to do, in order to learn that his church is flawed?"
An honest answer would include "reading literature considered apostate by the Mormon leadership".
Once he's ready to actually read something, Ray's first book is the very best choice, IMHO. Mickey Mouse suggests Don Cameron's book, and it's excellent. However, Don's book is hard-hitting from the first page. He doesn't pull any punches. Some have told me that it would have scared them to have read Don's book in the very beginning of their journey.
One of the questions that I grappled with, early on, was, 'What if the JWs are wrong? How would I ever know?'
Ultimately, it involved overcoming the FEAR of induldging my doubts. Hassan talks about helping people to overcome the fears and phobias implanted into them by the cult. The fear of being misled by Satan, the fear of apostates, the fear of losing eternal salvation, etc.
The WT has (soo) many unscriptural "doctrine"
here I can give you one:
wantingtruth
I don't have any great words of wisdom but.... Do you know a weakness of his? I'm sorry but ALL JW's have something they supress that bothers them???
I had luck questioning the latest generation change. Which scripture was it based on?
With the recent part on the CA I don't know if that would be successful or a red flag for your husband?
Dear angelface
I also believe that the power is in personal experiences.
and I get the never discuss doctrine idea, and I agree (mostly)
however, there are certain times when a sincere jw must feel kind of cheated by their teachers (FDS - holy spirit??)
Think of all the times you ran into a "worldly" someone who made a comment or raised a point that made the stop-think brain turn and run from discomfort.
Even tho I'm not a JW, there was something I learned about them that took away all their credibility :
Most belief systems have their individual quirks. OK fine.
A JW baptismal candidate must believe the "unique" doctrines to be considered worthy. Ok still fine.
The WT uses their tricky literature and indoctrination methods to the entice their flock. (so by extension the JW person at the door - the personal experience)
Why can't their unique doctrines stand on their own merit if they are the truth - almighty god's truth?
I'm speaking of the deliberate misquotes (even by omission) for important JW subjects.
Example - the "trinity" brochure and the "Life how did it get here" book, as well as any historical or scientific data regarding earthquakes, 607BC, or the blood doctrine.
There is a fine line between theocratic war strategy and embarrassing the heck out of the almighty God.
Unique doctrines aside - religions use wacky ancient ideas all the time - but taking current recorded opinions
of others (EVEN YOUR OWN FOR GOD'S SAKE) and changing the gist to mean something else just to support your own ideas (new or re-adjusted) - well that's just plain DISHONEST not the flaws of men.
There are some really good programs on Discovery Channel, Geo, Nova, PBS stations etc. Or newspaper stories about courts stepping into Blood Transfusion cases that could start this type of conversation. There are lists of the dishonesty and misquotes in threads on this board somewhere as well as other sites devoted to this topic.
wp
JW's are pretty good at spinning "unscriptural" things and then saying the Bible says something about it. They quote some snippet of scripture that doesn't object to the essence of what they teach and they believe they are covered. Scriptures can be found to take either side of an argument.
You know your DH better than us and have been given many great ways to start.
Here's some food for thought on JW arguments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Q0Cr3tNGI
It really makes a great point around 3:30 that JW's think even if they don't say it:
"You are too stupid to see my point." Their variation on it is that people are blinded by Satan and the world and cannot see the real truth. All the while, it is the JW who is "blinded" by Watchtower reasoning.
Do your best, but don't expect miracles.
