wannabefree: thanks for clarifying, Paul prepared for Bethel service by making pies!
Is this Watchtower comment about the Slave a lie?
by jwfacts 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Mad Sweeney
The 2/15/2009 WT article "They Keep Following the Lamb" is a doozy on the subject as well:
They “Keep Following the Lamb”
“These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes.”—REV. 14:4.
ABOUT two and a half years into his ministry, Jesus “was teaching in public assembly at Capernaum.” Finding his speech shocking, “many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.” When Jesus asked his 12 apostles if they also wanted to go, Simon Peter replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.” (John 6:48, 59, 60, 66-69) True disciples of Jesus refused to quit following him. After being anointed with holy spirit, they continued to submit to Jesus’ direction.—Acts 16:7-10.
2 What can be said about the anointed Christians in modern times? In his prophecy about “the sign of [his] presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,” Jesus referred to the composite body of his spirit-anointed followers on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward.” (Matt. 24:3, 45; Luke 12:42) As a group, the slave class has established an excellent record of “following the Lamb no matter where he goes.” (Read Revelation 14:4, 5.) Its members remain virgins in a spiritual sense by not defiling themselves with the beliefs and practices of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Rev. 17:5) No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” and they remain “without blemish” from Satan’s world. (John 15:19) In the future, the remaining anointed ones on earth “will follow” the Lamb right into heaven.—John 13:36.
3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave “over his domestics,” that is, the individual members of the slave class, “to give them their food at the proper time.” He has also appointed the slave “over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:45-47) These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” of “other sheep.” (Rev. 7:9; John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the “other sheep” trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.
Jehovah Trusts the Slave
4 Consider what makes it possible for the faithful and discreet slave to provide timely, nutritious spiritual food. “I shall make you have insight and instruct you in the way you should go,” says Jehovah. He adds: “I will give advice with my eye upon you.” (Ps. 32:8) Yes, Jehovah provides direction to the slave. We can therefore have full confidence in the Scriptural insight, understanding, and guidance that we receive from the slave.
5 Jehovah also blesses the slave class with his holy spirit. While Jehovah’s spirit is invisible, what it produces in those upon whom it operates is not. Think of what the faithful and discreet slave has been able to accomplish in giving a worldwide witness about Jehovah God, his Son, and the Kingdom. Jehovah’s worshippers are actively proclaiming the Kingdom message in over 230 lands and island groups. Does that not give undeniable evidence that God’s spirit is empowering the slave? (Read Acts 1:8.) In providing timely spiritual food for Jehovah’s people the world over, the slave class must make vital decisions. In making them and putting them into effect, the slave exhibits love, mildness, and other aspects of the spirit’s fruitage.—Gal. 5:22, 23.
6 To appreciate the extent of Jehovah’s trust in the faithful slave, reflect on what he has promised its members. “The trumpet will sound,” wrote the apostle Paul, “and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Cor. 15:52, 53) The anointed followers of Christ, who serve God faithfully and die in corruptible human bodies, are resurrected as something more than spirit creatures having everlasting life. They are given immortality—endlessness and indestructibility. Moreover, they receive incorruption, being given bodies that are beyond decay and apparently are self-sustaining. Revelation 4:4 describes these resurrected ones as seated upon thrones with golden crowns upon their heads. The glory of royalty awaits anointed Christians. But there is more.
7 “The marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself. Yes, it has been granted to her to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones,” states Revelation 19:7, 8. Jehovah has chosen the anointed Christians to be the future bride for his Son. Incorruption, immortality, royalty, “the marriage of the Lamb”—what awe-inspiring gifts these are! They are stirring evidence of God’s confidence in the anointed, who “keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes.”
The Slave Is Trusted by Jesus
8 What evidence is there that Jesus completely trusts his spirit-anointed followers? On the last night of his life on earth, Jesus made a promise to his 11 faithful apostles. “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials,” he told them, “and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Luke 22:28-30) The covenant that Jesus then made with the 11 will extend to all 144,000 anointed Christians. (Luke 12:32; Rev. 5:9, 10; 14:1) If he did not trust them, would Jesus make a covenant that meant sharing his Kingdom power with them?
9 Moreover, Jesus Christ has appointed the faithful and discreet slave “over all his belongings”—all Kingdom interests on earth. (Matt. 24:47) Included among these belongings are the facilities at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses, at branch offices in various lands, and at Assembly Halls and Kingdom Halls worldwide. Included too is the work of Kingdom-preaching and disciple-making. Would anyone assign someone he did not trust to keep and use his valuable things?
10 Shortly before he ascended to heaven, the resurrected Jesus appeared to his faithful disciples and made a promise to them, saying: “Look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 28:20) Has this promise proved reliable? In the last 15 years, the number of congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide has grown from some 70,000 to over 100,000—an increase of over 40 percent. And what about the new disciples added? Nearly 4.5 million disciples were baptized in the last 15 years—an average of more than 800 a day. These spectacular increases are clear evidence that Christ is directing his anointed followers at their congregation meetings and is supporting them in their disciple-making work.
The Slave Is Faithful and Discreet
11 Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same? After all, the slave has shown itself to be faithful in doing its assigned work. For example, the Watchtower magazine has been published for some 130 years. Meetings, assemblies, and conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses continue to build us up spiritually.
12 The faithful slave is also discreet in that it neither acts immodestly, running ahead of Jehovah, nor lags behind when God’s direction on a matter is clear. For example, while false religious leaders tacitly approve or openly condone as normal the selfish, godless conduct of the people of the world, the slave provides warnings against the pitfalls of Satan’s wicked system. The slave is able to provide wise and timely warnings because Jehovah God and Jesus Christ are blessing it. The slave thus deserves our complete trust. How, though, can we demonstrate that we trust the faithful and discreet slave?
“Go With” the Anointed as They Follow the Lamb
13 The Bible book of Zechariah speaks of “ten men” who approach “a man who is a Jew” and say: “We will go with you people.” (Read Zechariah 8:23.) Since “a man who is a Jew” is spoken of as “you people,” he is a composite man. In our time, he represents the remnant of spirit-anointed Christians—part of “the Israel of God.” (Gal. 6:16) The “ten men out of all the languages of the nations” represent the great crowd of other sheep. Just as the anointed Christians follow Jesus no matter where he goes, the great crowd ‘goes with,’ or accompanies, the faithful and discreet slave. Those of the great crowd should never be ashamed to identify themselves as companions of the “partakers of the heavenly calling.” (Heb. 3:1) Jesus is not ashamed to call the anointed ones “brothers.”—Heb. 2:11.
14 Jesus Christ considers the loyal support given to his brothers as being given to him. (Read Matthew 25:40.) In what way, then, can those who have the earthly hope support Christ’s spirit-anointed brothers? Principally by helping them with the Kingdom-preaching work. (Matt. 24:14; John 14:12) While the number of anointed ones on the earth has decreased over the decades, the number of the other sheep has increased. When those who have an earthly hope share in the witness work, serving if possible as full-time evangelizers, they support the spirit-anointed ones in fulfilling the disciple-making assignment. (Matt. 28:19, 20) Not to be overlooked are the opportunities to support this work by making financial contributions in various ways.
15 As individual Christians, how do we view the timely spiritual food that the faithful slave dispenses by means of Bible-based publications and through Christian gatherings? Do we gratefully partake of it and readily apply what we learn? What is our response to organizational decisions made by the slave? Our willing obedience to the direction provided gives evidence of our faith in Jehovah’s arrangement.—Jas. 3:17.
16 “My sheep listen to my voice,” said Jesus, “and I know them, and they follow me.” (John 10:27) That is true of the anointed Christians. What about those who “go with” them? Such ones must listen to Jesus. They must also listen to his brothers. After all, the chief responsibility for caring for the spiritual welfare of God’s people has been entrusted to them. What does listening to the voice of Christ’s brothers involve?
17 The faithful and discreet slave today is represented by the Governing Body, who take the lead and coordinate the Kingdom-preaching work throughout the earth. The members of the Governing Body are experienced, spirit-anointed elders. They in particular can be described as “those who are taking the lead” among us. (Heb. 13:7) In caring for over 7,000,000 Kingdom proclaimers worldwide in over 100,000 congregations, these anointed overseers have “plenty to do in the work of the Lord.” (1 Cor. 15:58) Listening to the slave class means giving our full cooperation to its Governing Body.
Those Who Listen to the Slave Are Blessed
18 Since its appointment, the faithful and discreet slave has been “bringing the many to righteousness.” (Dan. 12:3) These include those who have the hope of surviving the destruction of the present wicked system of things. What a blessing this righteous standing with God is!
19 In the future, when ‘the holy city, New Jerusalem [consisting of 144,000] comes down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband,’ what will those who have listened to the voice of the slave experience? “God himself will be with them,” says the Bible. “And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Rev. 21:2-4) By all means, then, let us listen to the Christ and his trustworthy spirit-anointed brothers.
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sizemik
sizemik: What did you mean by the expression "panel beating"? Is this a reference to auto body work? If so, this theology is really more of a total wreck and just needs to be junked. Don't you agree?
Yes . . . you're right . . . my reference was to auto body work. Like you, I would be inclined to trade-in rather than repair. However WT$ are stuck with this jalopy for a while. My reference was to their "1914 - The Generation that will not pass away" doctrine that received the "overlapping" treatment (a desperate panel-beating technique).
Time, along with this body work, have precipitated the embarrassment over the F&DS . . . especially now it's gaining in popularity. Their response is typical . . . slowly distance themselves from it . . . bash it around a bit more . . . and eventually deny it ever existed. That's what they did with Rutherford and also the 1975 thing. As long as the GB are still in control . . . or think they are in control. Everything else is subject to that wonderful feature . . . "new light."
They're currently doing the same with the unpopular blood doctrine. . . . remember organ transplants being "cannabalism"? All their doctrines have a use-by date.
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jwfacts
Could you please explain your "Pie Making" question?
top line of Publisher Record .. Remarks ... pie making or pic making?
I was wondering what that question was about. When I was a regular pioneer I used to volunteer at Bethel sometimes. Once I spent a day there pie making. Although I could not count the time on my report, the number of hours worked at Bethel reduced my 1000 hour yearly requirement. I hated my days working in Bethel. I must have been insane for still applying to live there.
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00DAD
sizemik: Thanks for clarifying. Sooner or later they'll just reset the date for Christ's return and start the clock over with a new-model and a new generation of JWs that don't know the history. That "overlapping generation" idea is the STUPIDEST thing yet. I left just before they introduced that loser of an "explanation". I sometimes wish I could talk to one of my former congregation members or a current JW just to see how they swallow that crapola?!?
BTW, I miss your arguments and my mom sends her love!
jwfacts: So this explains your love of "pie charts" on jwfacts!!!
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rebel8
The "date immersed" line on that card kind of made me throw up a little. It's creepy for some reason.
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Quendi
Thanks, discreet slave, for giving us the text of The Watchtower article I referenced. I thought it was published in November of 2009, but now I recall that we studied it in November of that year when the actual publication date was, as you correctly cited, 15 June 2009. In any case, the last five paragraphs contain the basic thrust of the Governing Body's position. It also says something else. It empowers the elders to make judicial decisions when the Scriptures plainly say it is the congregation which should do so. We see how subtly the WTS corrupts what the Bible plainly says to maintain its own theology. But that is nothing new. Jesus' religious opponents did the same and with such skill that even he marveled, saying to them: "Adroitly you set aside the commandment of God in order to retain your tradition....and thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition which you handed down. And many things similar to this you do." --Mark 7:10, 13
Quendi
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someonesomewhere
( So, an intro, since this is my first post: Erm... hi. I've recently hit 19 yo, and I'm a born-in JW, baptised at 13, who is still active in the organization, along with my mother and a cousin who lives in my territory. My father and older sister never joined the faith, although they definitely respect it. Hm... I've never let go of my freedom to think critically, although I certainly never felt encouraged to share my questions/opinions on relevant spiritual matters. This forum seems to be a good place to actually do it, but I wish it had more active JWs participating in the debates and defending themselves logically against the accusations you post over here, to make this fairer. On the other hand, the fact that the Governing Body orders witnesses not to read any kind of website/magazine/etc that critiques JWs and not to discuss with apostates in any occasion - plus, the fact that the JWs, generally, obey - makes me wonder how false are the widespread accusations against the WT Society. )
Reading that they do not have a list of who's participating in the celebrations turned on a red light in my mind. My questions (which might have been asked before; sorry about that):
* If they don't know at all who's claiming to be annointed, how do they consult them when it comes to current beliefs and possible future changes, since, according to the Bible, the entire slave class has the responsibility of taking care of the great crowd and of the organization as a whole?
* If they don't know at all who's claiming to be annointed, how can they choose the brothers that become part of the Governing Body?
* Where did they get the idea of creating a Governing Body in the first place (I couldn't find any information about that in WT's 2010 Library and I don't recall ever hearing the brothers explain the reasons for creating a GB)?
* How can the Governing Body claim that it represents the entire slave class if they don't know (nor do they need to, in their own words) who's in that class? The President of a country only represents it because he was chosen to do it by a majority of the population. In this case, I don't think the slave class had any opportunity to vote, recommend someone, or anything else that would make this a fair decision with everybody's input allowed.
Hm, I asked a servant in my congregation, who I'm good friends with, why wouldn't the GB want to know who's partaking (I asked him in a way that wouldn't make him think I'm questioning my faith or whatever, and I'm sure he bought it). This servant started by saying that the GB is not entirely composed of annointed brothers; he said it also had highly spiritual people from the great crowd. In the same second, I showed him a Watchtower magazine saying the GB only had annointed brothers, and he immediately looked pretty puzzled and was clearly trying to come up with a good answer fast to cover up his crazy mistake. Eventually, he said it's because the annointed are so spread out in the world that it would be really hard to contact all of them. Besides, since many of them could be lying about their annointed condition, they wouldn't risk contacting people with bad intentions. He then said that the GB has only got real annointed ones. I didn't say anything else, but I wonder how can anyone distinguish between really annointed and falsely annointed if, in every case, it is entirely a personal matter that should not be judged by anyone except for Jehovah. I also wonder where is the basis for his answer. It looked like he made it up in the moment. Anyway, after watching him display complete ignorance on such an important concept (the elements of the GB), nothing he said could convince me. Knowing that much and still being a servant? Wow. Guys, I need your help. Things like this and people like that servant prove to me that I won't be able to be a JW for the rest of my life.
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Listener
Someonesomewhere - It looked like he made it up in the moment.
On such important issues the r&f are left floundering, he should have at least been able to turn to one of the many publications and presented a clear answer.
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cyberguy
Technically, the statement is correct, because they do not know (they choose not to know), because that particular information from publisher record cards is not sent to Brooklyn. However, the statement that they don’t know who these people are seems begs the question as to how theycollectivelyprovide the “spiritual food at the proper time!” Obviously, this is a deception!