Some thoughts on the WTBS and money

by JeffT 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    It is a common meme on this board that the leadership of the WTBS is driven by financial considerations.

    As my may know, I have been working in financial management, particularly involving real estate for a number of years. I've been thinking about the Society's finances and I've reached a conclusion, either they are not motivated by money, or they've done a piss poor job of pulling it in.

    We've seen a number of references to the WTBS' one billion dollars of real estate in NYC, and some one posted a report that the Australian branch reported taking in 14 million dollars. In today's business world neither of these is a remarkable number. Three of my recent employers were mid-sized regional real estate investment companies (apartment buildings and commercial properties). The largest of them had about one hundred employees. All three firms had assets of 100-250 million dollars and annual gross revenue in the 10-20 million dollar range. As another comparison the mormon chuch is reported to take in up to $2,000,000 per day. http://carm.org/mormon-church-statistics

    World wide, the two churches are about the same size, but the mormons have a much higher concentration in the US.

    If I wanted to run a church to make money, it would look like the mormons, not the watchtower. Mormons are encouraged to go to school, get good jobs, become involved in their communities, run for office, do well in sports, what have. (This is largely true of a lot of mainstream churches as well) JW's are partically ordered to quit school, take menial jobs, isloate from their communities and otherwise separate from the society around them. If you were smart, ambitious, wanted to get ahead and make something of yourself; which church would you join?

    The Watchtower's policies over the years have now caught up with them. They have mounting legal expenses involving various challanges, and they have no financial base they can tap to raise the funds. They may have a deep pocket donor here and there, but the base is stuggling to get by. The society can't beat money out of people that don't have it.

    Another comparison, the "Christian products" industry. Chistian stores now sell normal looking hardcover and paperback books, both non-fiction and fiction (as opposed to the crappy looking stuff I've seen JW's hawking the last few years). Christian stores now also sell jewelry, music, posters, t-shirts, refrigerator magnets, software and whatever else the market will snap up. It's a four billion dollar a year industry. http://www.christianretailing.com/about_cr.php?id=3

    Watchtower share? = -0-

    Again this runs to the point noted above, most JW's don't have much disposable income for such things; and the Watchtower thinks it is to "worldly" to engage in such things. (I know, there are a few outfits selling book bags and the like, I don't know that the WTBS gets any of the money and none of it would be considered "fun")

    As I said, I think that if money is the motivation they have done a stunningly incompetent job of obtaining it.

  • jworld
    jworld

    Well there are surely wealthier religions out there. But you forget all of the WT properties are built with minimal labor costs. The mormons don't even have that! They need to take in millions a day to pay for their large churches, cathedrials, colleges, etc.

    Plus as we are finding out the Watchtower doesn't pay for renting their district convention sites. They make the Tourism boards pay and then take what has to be the vast majority of contributions back to HQ's tax free. All total they may be closer to "profit margin" as the Mormons, just they have a different business structure.

    The watchtower may not be in it for the money (I don't believe so) but that doesn't mean they are poor by any means.

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    For me, another related issue is transparency. Witnesses are never given an accurate financial report. Exactly how much money is spent WHERE? The printing and publishing could virtually be eliminated if they kept it on line.

    If 2000+ workers aren't needed for factory work, the farm wouldn't be needed to grow the food. If their policies on disfellowshipping, and pediphiles, were changed, they wouldn't have to pay out huge legal settlements or house so many attorneys.

    If they rented local buildings for CA's, they could sell their assembly halls and the "friends would save money.

    If the GB actually believed 1975 was going to be the end, why did they undertake their huge expansion?

    The GB is now stressing that JW's make THEM the beneficiarys of their estates. It's working. Most of hubby and my large JW family is writing their ofspring out of their wills. Even tho they didn't go to college and could have earned more through the years, they ALWAYS gave generously of what they DID have. When they die, their property ranging in value from 150.000.00 -1,000,000.00, respectively will ALL go to the society. I have a shirttail relative who wrote her children out of her will and gave it all to the WT$. Oil was found on her Oklahoma property and was pumping over $1,000,000.00 A MONTH!!!!

    The WT$ may be lousy businessmen but they are MASTER manipulaters. They are writing a lot of CraZy statements in the WTs trying to polarize the dubs. They are incouraging shunning like never before. Could it be to separate more and more families so that grandma will write the doubters out of the will? If so, its brilliant if you ask me.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Yes, transparency is very important. Also, they are not maintaining an infrastructure. If your costs are low b/c you use free labor, and don't invest a cent for charitable works, your costs are lower than other religions. I've never seen a true valuation from a respected firm on how much the buildings are in current dollars. The estimates vary widely. It may be available but I have yet to see it.

    I am certain 1/100 of the Vatican structure itself is worth more than all the WT assets. If charity were going on, if members could turn to the WT in emergencies, if food pantries were open, I could see the accumulated wealth. Also, aesthetically I think the Mormons and the WT both attended some weirdo, ugly design school. The structures remind me of Bolshevik architecture. The Catholics and most Protestants have churches that take away your breath at a gut level. The same is true for music. For a religion tha pushes the imminence of Christ's Second Coming, such heavy investment in real estate is bizzare. They should have holdings with more liquidity.

    They are reaping the miracle of property investment in NYC. Yet I do believe that a more sophisticated group would not sell during such a downturn. It sounds as though they need to liquidate. I doubt if their profit would be comparable to other property holders in the same area.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    I was a volunteer worker and they demanded a payment from me for air conditioning in my tiny room.

    Here in Mississippi, we call such folks, "Greedy Bastards".

  • designs
    designs

    The Watchtower Society is staring at the solution to their cash flow problems but their stubborn ideology prevents them from making the decision.

    Bethel Homes as Retirement Homes and Senior Living Centers. The Lutherans have the Luthrean Fund and operate Senor Living Centers around the country. The Watchtower Society refuses to entertain the idea in any serious way because of their End Times beliefs, somehow they equate caring for older JWs as an admission of defeat on their Armageddon Is Near doctrine.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Yet I do believe that a more sophisticated group would not sell during such a downturn.

    Smart business people BUY in a downturn.

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    Very true, Selling in a depressed market indicates stupidity or a desperate need (or desire) for cash.

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    The money is tied to their claim that Jehovah is on their side. At the beginning they said "as long as Jehovah keeps providing the funds, we will continue to publish the Watchtower". They are the Watchtower so if funds go dry, it means Jehovah is no longer on their side. It's not money they love it's the false security they trust in and hide behind.

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    OR.........Could they be taking the profit (they still have gains) and reinvesting? How do we know they AREN"T buying? Then using their slave labor to once again turn a huge prophet.

    edit: profit hahah

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