When...JERUSALEM DESTROYED?” PART TWO - c.o.Jonsson

by diamondiiz 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Don't let this side line argument fool you. Both COJ and the WTS are on the same side of false history, supporting 539 BCE as the fall of Babylon. JWs falsely claim the 70 years were served by those deported the year Babylon fell down to the 1st of Cyrus. Josephus, however, dates these 70 years from the last deportation in year 23 of NebII out of Egypt, which is also when the Bible dates the last deportation as well, identifying those deported as those "escaping from the sword", which is a reference to the remnant from Egypt.

    So you have two false prophets trying to authenticate the false revised timeline that dates the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. The Bible's dating for the fall of Babylon is 462 BCE, which begins the 6-year rule of Darius the Mede the following year in 561 BCE down to the 1st of Cyrus in 455 BCE. Darius the Mede was the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar II and thus a legitimate Babylonian king. Thus even though Belshazzar was killed, the Neo-Babylonian kingdom continued via Darius the Mede and Nabonidus, who was the primary king of Babylon in a co-rulership with his son, Belshazzar. Only when Cyrus takes over the entire kingdom of the Medes and Persians and thus becomes king of Babylon does the Neo-Babylonian kingdom end. It is thus not in the 1st year of Darius the Mede that the Jews were released, but not until his 6-year rule was over and Cyrus begins to rule that the Jews are released in 455 BCE.

    But for COJ, that is a side debate. That's because he brought the world's attention to the VAT4956, which contains two "errors" for 568 BCE, year 37 of NebII. Those "errors" though, in Lines 3 and 14, turn out to match the year 511 BCE, the year the Bible dates year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II when the 1st of Cyrus falls in 455 BCE. The SK400, as well, can be used to date "year 7" of Nebuchadnezzar II to 541 BCE, giving you the same chronology for NebII as does the VAT4956. So it turns out both diaries, the VAT4956 and the SK400, were designed to hide the true, original timeline for the rule of NebII that was distorted by 57 years by Persian revisionism. The VAT4956 and SK400 were created after the revisions were made by the end of the reign of Artaxerxes II by Xenophon; they are not contemporary astronomical texts. The VAT4956 does use original observations in texts from 568 BCE, the revised date for year 37 of NebII, but also includes observations from year 511 BCE, the original year 37 of NebII. Thus the VAT4956 not only confirms 568 BCE as a revised date for year 37 of NebII, it confirms the original year 37 in 511 BCE, which matches the Bible's dating. That is, if 455 BCE is year 1 of Cyrus, then 70 years earlier dates the last deportation to 525 BCE When year 23 falls in 525 BCE, year 7 falls in 541 BCE and year 37 falls in 511 BCE, as reflected in these "safety text" documents, desgned to "hide in plain sight" the true chronology. The Bible's dataing thus becomes a sideline issue when these critical texts reflect a second chronology.

    LS

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Larsinger58: Jonsson is not taken seriously by more experienced Bible chronologists in regards to the 70 years of servitude/desolation because it is not an issue of the nations serving for 70 years but those of the last deportation as noted by Josephus in Ant. 11.1.1.

    Utter nonsense. Jonsson is in line with the most reputable scholars familiar with the issues, as he points out at page 6-7 in the first part of his treatise. I'll quote some of it here.

    As Professor Norman Gottwald points out:
    “Certainly it must be stressed that the seventy years refer primarily to the time of Babylonian world dominion and not to the time of the exile, as is often carelessly supposed.” (N. Gottwald, All the Kingdoms of the Earth, New York, Evanston, London: Harper & Row, Publishers, 1964, pp. 265, 266)

    This is the conclusion of many historians and Bible commentators, not just “some”, as the authors of the Watchtower article state on page 27, evidently in an attempt to defuse this important observation.

    Some examples were quoted in GTR4 on page 215, and many other leading scholars agree. One example is Professor Jack Finegan, whose Handbook of Biblical Chronology is a classic. In the second edition, published in 1998 (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson Publishers), he concludes on page 255:

    “The „seventy years … for Babylon,? of which Jeremiah speaks are therefore seventy years of Babylonian rule, and the return of Judah from exile is contingent upon the end of that period. Since the final fall of the Assyrian empire was in 609 B.C. (§ 430), and the New Babylonian empire endured from then until Cyrus the Persian took Babylon in 539, the period of Babylonian domination was in fact seventy years (609 – 539 = 70).”
    Another recent example is Dr. Jack Lundbom, an internationally respected authority on the book of Jeremiah. His three-volume commentary on Jeremiah in the Anchor Bible series is the most extensive and detailed modern commentary on the book, covering 2262 pages in all (Vol. I, 1999, XXV+934 pages; Vol. II, 2004, XVI+649 pages; and Vol. III, 2004, XIV+638 pages). In his discussion of the 70 years in Jeremiah 25:10-12 and 29:10 Dr. Lundbom concludes that this period refers “not to the length of Judah?s exile or to „Jerusalem?s desolations? but to Babylon?s tenure as a world power (Duhm).” He further observes:
    Classical Historians – How Accurate? – The Canon of Ptolemy
    7

    “From the fall of Nineveh (612 B.C.) to Babylon?s capture by Cyrus (539 B.C.) was 73 years; from the Battle of Carchemish (605 B.C.– Nebuchadrezzar?s first year; cf. 25:1) to Babylon?s capture by Cyrus (539 B.C.) was 66 years; and from the actual end of the Assyrian Empire (609/8 B.C.) to Babylon?s capture by Cyrus and the return of the exiles (539 B.C.) was almost precisely 70 years.” (Vol. II, Doubleday, 2004, pp. 249, 250)

    The answer to the question, “?Seventy Years? for Whom?”, then, is “for Babylon.” This is what Jeremiah clearly predicted at Jeremiah 25:11 and 29:10. The claim of the authors of the Watchtower article, that the Bible “shows that the 70 years were to be a period of severe punishment from God – aimed specifically at the people of Judah and Jerusalem,” conflicts both with Jeremiah?s prophecy and with the extra-Biblical historical evidence and is clearly false.

    http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-2.html#E

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Jonathan: Thanks for the quotes, but you have missed the point entirely. Let me try again to get you to see what the problem is.

    The proiblem is Josephus and the Jewish traditional interpretation of Jeremiah's prophecy as found at Ant. 11.1.1. Let me quote that:

    This reference records a seventy-year servitude by those last deported in year 23

    1. IN the first year of the reign of Cyrus (1) which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity."

    Note who undergoes "servitude seventy years." It is a referfence to the Jews who were last deported in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II. This has nothing to do with whether or not Babylon ruled for 66 or 70 or any other length of time. This is a completely separate reference to a 70-year period from year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II and ending the 1st of Cyrus. This also mentions Jeremiah the prophet.

    So these are two separate issues. That is, you could claim Jeremiah had two prophecies of 70 years, one about the domination of Babylon over the first nation it conquered and this one about the last deportees. So if COJ has a great argument for Jeremiah's 70 years being a reference to Babylonian domination, then great for him. That does not address this reference by Josephus about the 70 years of servitude of the last deportees.

    So I'm not arguing against COJ at this point, but comparing Josephus' claim that there was 70 years from year 23 of NebII down to the 1st of Cyrus to what the Bible claims. That is, does the Bible also support a 70-year interval from year 23 down to the 1st of Cyrus?

    The answer is: YES! How so? Because Zechariah 1 confirms that a 70-year period from the fall of Jerusalem ended in the second year of Darius the Mede, while the Jews were still in exile. Zechariah 7 confirms that 70 years of mourning for Gedaliah in the seventh month ended in the 4th year of Darius the Mede. Thus the mourning over Gedealiah began 2 years after the fall of Jerusalem. This means he must have been killed in year 20 of NebII and the mourning begun the following year 21. Even so, the Jews are still in exile at this time, and rightly so if their release was not until the 1st of Cyrus. Cyrus had not begun his rule yet by the 4th year of Darius the Mede at Babylon. Per Josephus, though, the last deportees would have 2 more years of exile before they would be released. Thus we learn that Darius the Mede must have ruled for a full six years before Cyrus became king over Babylon. Cyrus was ruling over the Persian half of the Medo-Persian empire, whereas as Darius the Mede was ruling over the Median half of the kingdom. But then Darius the Mede abdicated over to Cyrus who then became king over the entire kingdom, beginning that rule from Babylon with "year 1" of his new kingship. It was in this year that the Jews were released as the Bible states.

    So the Bible confirms this historical reference by Josephus, that there was a 74-year interval from the fall of Jerusalem down to the 1st of Cryus and that the Jews were still in exile during the 6-year rule of Darius the Mede. This is the issue we would like for COJ and the other scholars to comment on. But notice, this has nothing to do with their claim of a 70-year domination by Babylon of the nations. As far as I'm concerned, that is a completely separate issue.

    So will YOU please comment on Josephus' claim about Jeremiah's seventy years being applied to the last deportees, please? This has nothing to do with the length of the Neo-Babylonian claim of a 70-year domination. Do you realize we can discuss how long the last deportees were in exile without even bringing up or comparing the domination of Babylon over some specific nation for seventy years?

    So, please just respond to this secular historical reference by Josephus that the last deportees spent 70 years in exile and that this is supported by the Bible as well? Only if we decide later to compare these 70 year with 70 years of NB domination would the 70 years of NB domination have anything to do with this reference. IOW, I have no comment on the Biblical or secular length of the NB Period. I'm simply noting that the Jews applied at least one Jeremiah prophecy about the 70 years to those last deported in year 23 of Neb-II.

    Thanks for your reconsideration.

    Regards,

    LS

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    So the Bible confirms this historical reference by Josephus, that there was a 74-year interval from the fall of Jerusalem down to the 1st of Cryus and that the Jews were still in exile during the 6-year rule of Darius the Mede.

    No, neither the Bible nor secular sources confirm this as the exiles were not enslaved to a Babylonian king after the fall in 539. There was no king to serve, and they had been set free. So they could not have been enslaved during the 6-year rule of Darius. Where on earth do you come up with these crazy ideas? You and the JWs are inventing history and scripture.

    http://144000.110mb.com/directory/607_bce_586_587_destruction_fall_desolation_jerusalem.html

    The seventy years could not have ended when the exiles returned to Judah in 537 B.C.E. because there existed no king of Babylon to serve for two years between 537 B.C.E. and 539 B.C.E., after Persia began its reign in 539 B.C.E.[top]

    If there was no longer a king of Babylon once the reign of Persia began, how could the exiles serve him for two more years until they returned to their homeland? It would not be possible. The Jehovah's Witnesses counter that Cyrus the king of Persia was the king of Babylon during those last two years between 539 B.C.E. and 537 B.C.E. so they were still captives serving a king of Babylon, Cyrus. They also claim that at first Cyrus did not alter the policy of the Babylonian Dynasty and therefore the nations continued to serve ‘the king of Babylon’ (thus dipping into the Dominant Babylonian Empire theory for convenience' sake), and that a contemporary clay inscription quotes Cyrus as referring to himself as king of Babylon. Their argument is reproduced here:

    Until their release in 537 B.C.E, for the entire duration that the Jewish exiles were held captive in Babylon, it could rightly be said that they were serving the king of Babylon. This is expanded upon in paragraph 10 of an article entitled “The ‘Cup’ That All Nations Must Drink at God’s Hand” that appeared in the September 15, 1979 issue of The Watchtower, p. 24:“ It is true that he [Cyrus] conquered Gentile Babylon in 539 B.C.E., or about two years before the“ seventy years” of desolation of the land of Judah ran out. He proclaimed himself “king of Babylon” and at first did not alter the policy of the Babylonian dynasty of King Nebuchadnezzar.Thus the nations subjugated by Nebuchadnezzar continued to serve “the king of Babylon” 70 years.”

    Are Jehovah’s Witnesses justified in making this claim? Yes, for the Bible tells us that after Cyrus II conquered Babylon, Darius the Mede became “king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans,” (Daniel 5:31, 9:1) and shortly thereafter, Cyrus established his kingship over all of Babylon, even being referred to as “Cyrus the king of Babylon” at Ezra 5:13. A contemporary inscription on a clay barrel confirms the accuracy of the Biblical account: “ All the inhabitants of Babylon as well as the entire country of Sumer and Akkad, princes and governors (included), bowed to him (Cyrus) and kissed his feet, jubilant that he (had received) the kingship . . . I am Cyrus, king of the world, great king, legitimate king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad.”—Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament, James B. Pritchard, p.316.

    Four questions present themselves: a) what year was Cyrus crowned king of Babylon, b) if he was crowned king of Babylon before the Jews returned to Judah why was he referred to as king of Persia during this time, and afterwards, c) if he was not crowned king of Babylon immediately in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell but at a later date, allowing for a gap in time, could the exiles legitimately be said to have served him during that gap which would shorten the seventy year time span, and d) even if Cyrus was crowned king of Babylon before the Jews returned, did he change the empire's policy and free the Jews so that they were not serving as captive slaves to Cyrus even before they began the long journey home?

    First, while it is true that at Ezra 5:13 Cyrus was referred to as king of Babylon, it should be noted that it was not the Jews who referred to Cyrus as the king of Babylon, but the Jews' enemies who were attemping to thwart the rebuilding effort who paraphrased the Jewish response. Their enemies claimed the Jews referred to Cyrus as king of Babylon, which is heresay. The Jewish defense was restated in a letter from the Jews' enemies Tattenai, the governor beyond the river, to King Darius years after their return. The letter was written long after the exiles returned while the task of re-building was underway. It does not provide any evidence that Cyrus was king of Babylon from October 539 B.C.E. to 537 B.C.E. See generally chapter 5 of the book of Ezra.

    Secondly, as a matter of fact Cyrus is referred to as king of Persia six times in verses preceding Ezra 5:13; four instances covering the time period before the exiles departed Babylon (Ezra 1:1, 2, 8), and twice in connection with the Jews’ attempts at rebuilding the temple at Ezra 4:3,5. Before the Jews returned, and even after they returned, they considered Cyrus king of Persia.

    Third, the Jehovah's Witnesses find support for their theory that the Jews served Cyrus the king of Babylon from 539 B.C.E. to 537 B.C.E. by reference to the above highlighted undated ‘contemporary’ cuneiform inscription on a clay barrel. As it turns out, this clay barrel is no ordinary clay barrel. It is considered to be the first charter of human rights and a very important historical artifact. In addition, it is the document, or charter, by which captives of the Babylonian Empire were freed, including the Jews. And that date, was the first day of spring 538 B.C.E., a mere 6 months or less after Babylon fell:

    "The charter of Cyrus the Great, a baked-clay Aryan language (Old Persian) cuneiform cylinder, was discovered in 1878 in excavation of the site of Babylon. In it, Cyrus the Great described his human treatment of the inhabitants of Babylonia after its conquest by the Iranians.

    The document has been hailed as the first charter of human rights, and in 1971 the United Nations was published translation of it in all the official U.N. languages. "May Ahura Mazda protect this land, this nation, from rancor, from foes, from falsehood, and from drought". Selected from the book "The Eternal Land".

    This is a confirmation that the Charter of freedom of Humankind issued by Cyrus the Great on his coronation day in Babylon could be considered superior to the Human Rights Manifesto issued by the French revolutionaries in their first national assembly. The Human Rights Manifesto looks very interesting in its kind regarding the expressions and composition, but the Charter of Freedom issued twenty three centuries before that by the Iranian monarch sounds more spiritual.

    Comparing the Human Rights Manifesto of the French National Assembly and the Charter approved by the United Nations with the Charter of Freedom of Cyrus, the latter appears more valuable considering its age, explicitness, and rejection of the superstitions of the ancient world.

    Cyrus the Great entered the city of Babylon in 539 BCE, and after the winter, on the first day of spring, he was officially crowned: My numerous troops moved about undisturbed in the midst of Babylon. I did not allow anyone to terrorise the land of Sumer and Akkad. I kept in view the needs of Babylon and all its sanctuaries to promote their well being. The citizens of Babylon ................. I lifted their unbecoming yoke. Their dilapidated dwellings I restored. I put an end to their misfortunes.

    The description of the coronation of Cyrus is the most elaborate one in the world written by the Greek philosopher, politician, and historian Xenephon (Cyropaedia of Xenophon, The Life of Cyrus The Great).

    On the day of coronation, Cyrus read the Charter of Freedom out after he put on the crown with his hand in Marduk Temple.

    Uncertain and the full text of the Charter was unavailable until an inscription was found during the excavation works in the old city of Ur in Mesopotamia. After the translation of the words, it was found out that the document was the same Charter. It is now kept in the British Museum and it is no exaggeration to say that it is one of the most precious historical records of the world.

    In the Charter, after introducing himself and mentioning the names of his father, first, second, and third ancestors, Cyrus says that he is the monarch of Iran, Babylon, and the four continents:

    I am Kourosh (Cyrus), King of the world, great king, mighty king, king of Babylon, king of the land of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters, son of Camboujiyah (Cambyases), great king, king of Anshân, grandson of Kourosh (Cyrus), great king, king of Anshân, descendant of Chaish-Pesh (Teispes), great king, king of Anshân, progeny of an unending royal line, whose rule Bel and Nabu cherish, whose kingship they desire for their hearts, pleasure. When I well -disposed, entered Babylon, I set up a seat of domination in the royal palace amidst jubilation and rejoicing. Marduk the great god, caused the big-hearted inhabitations of Babylon to .................. me, I sought daily to worship him.

    He continues:

    At my deeds Marduk, the great lord, rejoiced and to me, Kourosh (Cyrus), the king who worshipped him, and to Camboujiyah (Cambyases), my son, the offspring of (my) loins, and to all my troops he graciously gave his blessing, and in good sprit before him we glorified exceedingly his high divinity. All the kings who sat in throne rooms, throughout the four quarters, from the Upper to the Lower Sea, those who dwelt in ..................., all the kings of the West Country, who dwelt in tents, brought me their heavy tribute and kissed my feet in Babylon. From ... to the cities of Ashur, Susa, Agade and Eshnuna, the cities of Zamban, Meurnu, Der as far as the region of the land of Gutium, the holy cities beyond the Tigris whose sanctuaries had been in ruins over a long period, the gods whose abode is in the midst of them, I returned to their places and housed them in lasting abodes.

    I gathered together all their inhabitations and restored (to them) their dwellings. The gods of Sumer and Akkad whom Nabounids had, to the anger of the lord of the gods, brought into Babylon. I, at the bidding of Marduk, the great lord, made to dwell in peace in their habitations, delightful abodes.

    May all the gods whom I have placed within their sanctuaries address a daily prayer in my favour before Bel and Nabu, that my days may be long, and may they say to Marduk my lord, "May Kourosh (Cyrus) the King, who reveres thee, and Camboujiyah (Cambyases) his son ..."

    And:

    Now that I put the crown of kingdom of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of (Ahura) Mazda, I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on or insult them until I am alive. From now on, till (Ahura) Mazda grants me the kingdom favor, I will impose my monarchy on no nation. Each is free to accept it , and if any one of them rejects it , I never resolve on war to reign. Until I am the king of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions, I never let anyone oppress any others, and if it occurs , I will take his or her right back and penalize the oppressor.

    And until I am the monarch, I will never let anyone take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without compensation. Until I am alive, I prevent unpaid, forced labor. To day, I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion. People are free to live in all regions and take up a job provided that they never violate other's rights.

    No one could be penalized for his or her relatives' faults. I prevent slavery and my governors and subordinates are obliged to prohibit exchanging men and women as slaves within their own ruling domains. Such a traditions should be exterminated the world over.

    I implore to (Ahura) Mazda to make me succeed in fulfilling my obligations to the nations of Iran (Persia), Babylon, and the ones of the four directions." (www.IranChamber.com).

    So, even though the "contemporary" barrel may have been undated, within it one finds key dates and policy changes which completely undermine the the Jehovah's Witnesses' understanding. The most glaring oversight by Jehovah's Witnesses is the date Cyrus was crowned king of Babylon, the first day of spring 538 B.C.E., roughly six months or less after Babylon fell to the Persians. So, for those six months there was no "king of Babylon" for the Jews to serve and their servitude amounts to around 69 1/2 years, not seventy. And if he was crowned a year later, in the spring of 537 B.C.E., as the Jehovah's Witnesses imply, that amounts to a year and a half gap of the Jews not serving any king of Babylon.

    Yet, even if Cyrus was crowned king of Babylon, from the first day of spring 538 B.C.E. he set the Jews and all the other Babylonian captives free. He imposed his monarchy (kingship) on no people unless they wished it, which the Jews did not. He outlawed unpaid forced labor (slavery), people were free to live in all regions, and displaced inhabitants were restored to their dwellings. The Jehovah's Witnesses' lack of basic understanding of this is incredulous. A little common sense, coupled with this "clay barrel" go a long way. Were the Jews still captive slaves after Cyrus set them free? No. Were they still captive slaves until they actually picked up their things and started walking home? Of course not. The Jews were not captive servants to any king of Babylon once Persia ruled. Again, the Jehovah's Witnesses come up short of seventy years.

    Fourth, the Jehovah's Witnesses further argue, as stated above, that Cyrus proclaimed himself king of Babylon and at first did not alter the policy of the Babylonian dynasty or Nebuchadnezzar and therefore the Jews continued to serve the king of Babylon seventy years. The problem of course is that the authors of the Watchtower magazine failed to cite any authority for their self-serving statement that “at first [Cyrus] did not alter the policy ….” That statement is false, they offer no proof, and as just shown, Cyrus' Charter of Freedom above disproves any such notion. Cyrus did, in fact, alter the policy and set the Jews free early in his reign, within six months of his numerous years of ruling Babylon. There could not be a more profound policy change affecting the captive Jews, and other captives, than this.

    Fifth, citing no verifiable authority they attempt to avoid this dilemma by asserting that the official decree freeing the exiled captives occurred in late 538 B.C.E. or early 537 B.C.E. in a last-ditch effort to push the date of captivity as close to 537 B.C.E. as possible. However, as shown above, it has been solidly established by archeologists and historians the world over that Cyrus’ decree was issued in 538 B.C.E.

    Sixth, even assuming for the sake of argument that the roughly 50,000 exiles set free by Cyrus were not technically free until they began walking home after lengthy preparations, the Jehovah's Witnesses' Return theory still falls four months short of seventy years because that is how long it took them to complete the journey according to The Watchtower of May 1, 1952, pp. 271-2:

    In either case this would have given sufficient time for the large party of 49,897 Jews to organize their expedition and to make their long four-month journey from Babylon to Jerusalem to get there by September 29-30, 537 B.C., the first of the seventh Jewish month, to build their altar to Jehovah as recorded at Ezra 3:1-3. Inasmuch as September 29-30, 537 B.C., officially ends the seventy years of desolation as recorded at 2 Chronicles 36:20, 21, so the beginning of the desolation of the land must have officially begun to be counted after September 21-22, 607 B.C., the first of the seventh Jewish month in 607 B.C., which is the beginning point for the counting of the 2,520 years.

    Setting the Record Straight at pp. 4-5 is in accord with this position and clarifies that the seventy years was exactly seventy years to the month.

    At 2 Kings 25:25, 26, the Bible reports that by the seventh month even those left behind, “all the people, from small to great,” fled to Egypt, leaving the land completely desolate, “ without an inhabitant.” As this factor was necessary for fulfillment (Isaiah 6:11, 12; Jeremiah 4:23, 25; 4:27,
    29; 6:7, 8; 9:11; 24:8, 10), Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that the seventy years of desolation could not officially begin to be counted until after the first of the seventh Jewish month.
    Ezra 1:1 shows that it was “in the first year of Cyrus, the king of Persia,” or 538/7 B.C.E., that Cyrus issued the decree releasing the Jews from captivity.

    The Bible notes that the Jews arrived back in their homeland by the seventh month, Tishri, which would be September 29-30, 537 B.C.E. (Ezra 3:1-3). From this date, Jehovah’s Witnesses count back seventy years to 607 B.C.E. as the year for Jerusalem’s destruction. Thus, the “ devastations of Jerusalem, [namely], seventy years,” spoken of by Daniel the prophet, were exactly seventy years in duration, running from the seventh month of 607 B.C.E. to the seventh month of 537 B.C.E.

    Accordingly, if the Jews' seventy-year period of captivity ran exactly seventy years from the seventh month of 607 B.C.E. to the seventh month of 537 B.C.E., but they were set free and were not captive during the four months it took them to travel home, their seventy-year Return theory fails because they were captive for only sixty-nine years and eight months. They could not have ‘served’ the king of Babylon, even if it was Cyrus, for the full seventy years.

    Seventh, the entire argument that Cyrus the Persian, the anointed of Jehovah, who rescued the Jews and freed them was on equal footing with the previous Babylonian kings who slaughtered, captured and enslaved the Jews in the first place contradicts a literal reading of Jehovah’s prophecy to all the nations which was very sweeping in scope. Which of these nations of Jeremiah 25:11 were to serve the king of Babylon seventy years? According to Jeremiah 25:26 they included “... all the kings of the Medes ... all the kings of the north who are near and far away, one after the other, and all the [other] kingdoms of the earth that are on the surface of the ground; ….” This includes Persia and the Medes who conquered Babylon. As such the Jehovah's Witnesses' theory would result in an incompatible irony - during the last two years of the Jews' seventy-year Return theory the kings of Persia and the Medes would have had to serve itself.

    Ultimately, the Jehovah's Witnesses' arguments supporting their Return theory - that the seventy years ended when the exiles returned to their homeland - are moot and irrelevant because as established above and in accordance with clear, unambiguous Scripture, the seventy years of servitude applied to all nations dominated by the Babylonian Empire, and that dominance, and the nations’ corresponding servitude to the kings(s) of Babylon ended in October 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell.

    The seventy-year prophecy ended while the Jews were in Babylon and only later did they return home. There is no viable Return theory. And because there is no Return theory, because it is an unscriptural and impossible concept to implement due to its many failures and inconsistencies the Jehovah's Witnesses incorrectly render Jeremiah 29:10 ‘at Babylon,’ rather than ‘for Babylon’. But the latter is what Jehovah through the mouth of Jeremiah intended.

    10 “For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years for Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.'"

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    BTTT (for new folks, pay no attention to the resident messiah...)

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    One more time!

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Thanks saved it to my iPad :)

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    bump

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