Letter of DA from attorney to Elders becomes gossip fodder -- Society, Elders culpable?

FatFreek 2005

On a recent thread, I posted a question there but was too late. It had fallen off the radar. That thread was about someone who had an attorney mail notice to their local congregation that they had terminated membership. Here is the relevant part of that attorney's letter from Roberta ("R"):

"This law firm has been retained by "R" to remove her good name from your roster and all records on account of her wishes to no longer be a memeber of the Jehovah Witness religion. Per your request of my client, this letter will serve as "R" formal notification of her intent.

It is of great concern that it is your common practice to make formal announcements of this sort public in an effort to stop family and friends from ever asociating with her again, dispite the fact she desires this decision for her own person only. With this concern it is of great importance that you understand defamation of character is a serious offence punishable under both state and federal law. Therefore it is this firm's demand that any public or private discussion that demeans the good name of "R" either in the near or distant future will be met with legal action.

As with all cases, our goal is satisfaction of both parties if at all possible. We trust you understand that dissatisfaction for our client can only be experienced by purposeful, hurtful and unnessary action on your part."

Long story short, she and her husband successfully challenged, some years later, a local elder and the Society, in litigation. According to her they received monetary damages. While I suspect that their win was primarily because the elder tried to privately alienate their child against the parents -- the case raised more questions that I had -- and they follow:

Now let me get this straight. Let's say that I wrote a similar letter and had relatives like you who kept me informed that no such announcement, "Fatfreek 2005 is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", was made.

Months following that I get shunned by various JW's at the mall or restaurant, etc. Naturally, this would infer that these JW's were somehow informed about my private letter to the elders. If they didn't learn it from the platform - then the information somehow leaked out to the gossip mill.

If I were upset by this chain of events, should I get a lawyer, tell him about these unpleasant experiences, and expect him to file a suit subpoenaing the various folks that shunned me, having them state exactly why they shunned me? Then, if the shunner(s) say they heard that I was no longer proper Christian association - demand to know who told them?

Would this approximate a logical trail of events that could make the elders and Watchtower culpable?

Len

Knowsnothing

I'm no legal expert (hahaha) but I'll just give you my regular joe-schmoe opinion on it.

If I were upset by this chain of events, should I get a lawyer, tell him about these unpleasant experiences, and expect him to file a suit subpoenaing the various folks that shunned me, having them state exactly why they shunned me?

I think this goes beyond legal jurisdiction. Any person has the right(?) to cease association with any other person. Religious beliefs/differences is no different.

Then, if the shunner(s) say they heard that I was no longer proper Christian association - demand to know who told them?

Say it weren't an elder, what then?

Would this approximate a logical trail of events that could make the elders and Watchtower culpable?

I don't think it would get that far (see reasons above). In anycase, if the objective is to still be allowed to hold association, the real question to ask is, would those that associated with me (being a DA or DF individual) have the ability to remain JW's without sanctions?

If you aren't "officially" DA or DF, there can be no punishment for hanging out with you, thus no reason to shun you.

AGuest

Perhaps someone needs to turn on the "BOT"(R) searchlight...

Peace!

SA, on her own... searching the skies... in preparation to ward off any [potential] swooping by BOT(R)s... or their related sidekicks (i.e., the sundry ones, q's, whathaveyou...)

FatFreek 2005

Hi Knowsnothing,

Thanks for your feedback. My take, after re-reading that attorney's letter, expecially these words, "remove her good name from your roster and all records on account of her wishes to no longer be a member of the Jehovah Witness religion. "

There was nothing derogatory said against the local congregation, the Society, or its teachings. Perhaps that was key to her not being disfellowshipped, or announced to the effect that "Jane Doe is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses".

"Say it weren't an elder, what then?"

Well, perhaps one of those shunners would finally cave in and concede who they heard it from. The bottom line is, the only one who knew about this letter is the official (at minimum) at the congregation who opened the letter. From there it has to have been passed along the grapevine, if not from the platform, then from word of mouth.

Len

nugget

Because of the judgemental nature of the religion shunning would not necessarily be proof of information or gossip. Failure to attend regularly may be sufficient for individuals to take this step.because of this you may have difficulty proving the connection legally. If you had proof of an announcement or marking talk then things may be different.

FatFreek 2005

Hi Nugget,

Hmmm ... you said something that I haven't heard before and I can see it as a good weapon to discourage new ones from proceeding into the baptismal step. " Failure to attend regularly may be sufficient for individuals to take this step".

"So you see, Mr. EyesWideShut, once you are baptized your course of action must remain steady from then on. Lack of keeping up this course, including attending the meetings, may be grounds for being shunned by those in the congregation."

Is there any WT statement that corroborates that?

fearlessfreedom84

Hi, I have never posted on this site, but This topic is one of interest to me. I recently (Two weeks ago) called an elder from a congregation where my "Cards" were and told him that I was disassociating myself from them and did not want them to contact me ever again. Although I only made this call two weeks ago, I have been "Inactive" for over 2 years. I was told that simply calling them was not enough to do this. They told me that I had to write a letter just in case I ever wanted to come back. That if I did not write a letter, it would be my word against theirs. I think this is stupid. At this point, I do not care if they say anything from the platform about me disassociating myself, I only care about the specific information in the letter about myself. I am admitting to them that I am a lesbian and am airing my grievances with the religion. I think the fear of Gossip is not unfounded. It seems like anything you tell an elder eventually comes out. They are supposed to keep that information confidential, but they are bound to tell a spouse or another good friend who then tells their spouse. That spouse then spreads the gossip. I have always found it funny that JW's have such and issue with sins of a sexual nature, but yet, gossip is not seen as bad. There seem to be no consequences for this. I see gossip as something that would "stumble" someone and according to them, if you "stumble" someone, it is better for you to " tie a mortar around your neck and pitch yourself into the sea." hmmm.. seems a bit hypocritical to me to punish some and not others. Sorry to go off topic here, but it seemed to somewhat fit the discussion. btw... quick question.. how do you post a new thread on this website?

Thank you,

Tania

Knowsnothing

@fearless,

To post a new thread, you can go on top to a box that says [New Topic].

I suggest, however, you first look for an appropriate section to post your topic. If you want it to be private, i.e. not visible to those not registerd at JWN, you can go to the members section and post on any of the given subsections, such as Private Discussion & Support.

You would have to click on the section first, then you can click [New Topic].

Oh and welcome to the forum.

Glad to have you, I hope you share your experience more on your own topic.

StoneWall

fearlessfreedom84,

Welcome to the forum. Hope to hear more from you in the near future.

Regards,

StoneWall

FatFreek 2005

Hi Fearless and welcome,

Our hearts all ache for you and we understand, though not as completely as you -- we're not in your shoes.

If you've told them that lesbian is your sexual preference and that you don't intend to change, then you are a candidate for meeting with a judicial committee. In that case you won't need a letter -- they will take care of it for you, from the platform (although they will not divulge, for fear of legal repurcussions, anything you've told them. Only that "Fearless is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". Wishing you the best.

By the way, you've put a name at the bottom which you may wish to alter for confidentiality. You have a window of time in which you can edit that.

Len

Letter of DA from attorney to Elders becomes gossip fodder -- Society, Elders culpable?

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