by jwfacts 220 Replies latest watchtower bible
And many who have read on their have come to the conclusion that the WT teaches the truth of the Bible.
Please stop making such sweeping generalisations, as they are unsubstantiated and incorrect. As already proven, no one comes to the teachings of the Watchtower by reading the Bible alone. Only once someone has been indoctrinated as a JW that the Bible can be read alone and still hold to JW teachings. Are you aware of how ignorant repeatedly making such baseless claims makes you appear.
I could quote a hundred more articles...in addition to books written by the WTS...but I think this suffice...
Suffice for what? . . . did you not read all of this thread? . . . the other WT publication quotes?
All you've done is prove that the WTS is full of double talk on the subject of Bible reading . . . WTF?
“Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.”—The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 587
“They say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago…”—The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, pp. 28-29
I think your quoted poem is extremely applicable to Jehovah's Witnesses . . .
“Some read to prove a pre-adopted creed,
Thus understand but little what they read;
And every passage in the Book they bend
To make it suit that all-important end.”
Thanks anyway.
Hi David,
Welcome to this site. Given you've been on this site a little over a year you must know some of these points?
According to the bible who is mediator for all men (hint: 1 Tim 2:5)?
According to the bible what book/magazine is the highest authority on theological teachings (hint: 2 Tim 3:16)?
Now answer me these:
According to the WT who is mediator for all men (hint: March 2012 Watchtower)?
According to the WT what book/magazine is the highest authority on theological teachings?
Now that you have contradicted the core of Christianity and the New Testament with WT teachings on your own using your own Bible, why should you not investigate any other contradictions or just admit that the WT contradicts the bible rather than support it?
No response for me, although give him a break David is working hard on this thread.
But just to add that I looked up the Carolyn Wah article again to see how she cites Penton. In actual fact she does not cite any of his work at all. She simply quotes Beckford and other sociologists to the effect that the work of former JWs work is biased and unreliable. So it's a sort of reference to Penton but without even mentioning his actual work by name, which doesn't even suggest she has read Penton's work much less engaged with it.
I think it's also interesting to note the extreme lengths JW apologists will often go to avoid citing apostate literature, perhaps the best example being the almost farcical situation where Rolf Furuli wrote a two-volume work countering the arguments of Carl Olof Jonsson without explicity referring to his book The Gentile Times Reconsidered at all.
Hi David
Just for the record, you didn't really answer my questions. You claim that the actual name of the site justifies you being here, even though you have been ordered not to contribute at such places. Does that mean you can walk into a strip club if it doesn't actually say "strip club" over the door? I commend your disobedience because you might actually learn something as a result of it, but that excuse was terrible.
On the issue of the Governing Body, you give no scriptural argument to support why a group of men that was formed 25 years after the Slave Class was chosen in 1919 has assumed full control over the administration of the organization on their behalf. You refer to the apostles as being the scriptural precendent, and yet surely you don't need me to point out the difference between the 12 apostles and the governing body? All bar one of the apostles was hand picked by Jesus himself, whereas the Governing Body picks itself. Nobody could deny that. Also, how can they call themselves "representatives" when they have absolutely no communication with the anointed, and don't even know who the anointed are?
On the third point, that of increasing light, the comments from jwfacts have already highlighted that you didn't answer the question. I think I understand the "increasing light" concept as it is explained in the publications perfectly well, even if my "makeweight" simplification is a little hard to stomach. Simply put, the Society claims to write under the guidance of the holy spirit, so anything wrong that they write in the publications is attributable to the holy spirit rather than human imperfection. Also, if this is such an efficient model by which Jehovah may convey his truths to mankind, why has he never used such a model before? Why, in the past, did he always communicate directly with his servants whereas now everything must be shrouded in ambiguity? Before you quote 1 Cor 13:9,10, let me remind you that we are supposed to now be living in times when "that which is complete" has arrived, and "that which is partial will be done away with". If we are truly living in the last days of the last days, there is no longer any reason for there to be a block on prophesying and miracles.
That said, I'm really glad you came back and at least offered answers to my questions. It proves to some extent that you are genuine, and I appreciate the time you are taking on this.
Cedars
I appreciate David's contributions here too. Thanks.
Just a side point Cedars, why 25 years after 1919 for the formation of the GB, I thought that was in the 1970's ?
I'm sorry David, but I find it hard to believe you when you say if you thought it was an anti-JW site you would have avoided it. Please, if anything, be honest here. You have tried to argue your case (at times being disrespectful to Paul by quoting him JW "facts" which isn't the best behaviour) but it falls on its face.
The "facts" are that throughout the history of Watchtower it has said you must have Watchtower to understand the bible. It never made that something you can pick or choose for yourself. You don't go the "Bible" study on a Sunday, you go to the "Watchtower" study, why? Yes of course it says read the bible, no one is saying any different to that but the "facts" are watchtower tells you that you cannot "read" and understand the bible without using their publications.
I found Ray Franz, through his books, to be humble, honest and not self serving, just my opinion mind you. Watchtowers insistence on study through its publications only is not an opinion, that is a "fact".
The people who come into and go out of the Watchtower Society are a "market".
The teachings of JW's are a "product".
Dissatisfied "customers" are DF'd and become mentally diseased Apostates. (Well, not all of them.)
Who then, are the charts of statistics actually created for? INVESTORS?
I assume Jehovah already knows.
The only answer I can come up with is the "satisfied customers".
The charts, in effect, tell them: "Hey, growth means we are being blessed. This means you've chosen correctly!"
I use to hear a particular statement uttered by JW's all the time: "Jehovah's Witnesses are the fastest growing religion."
And I would scratch my head and say, "Is that really statistically possible? Every baby born to a Catholic is automatically counted as a Catholic."
The reply would be a shrug. The facts didn't matter as much as the excitement of being a part of SUCCESS!!
Considering how many hours of preaching are INeffective you'd think the Brute Force method (throwing more people into the field) would give way to a contemporary appreciation for the EFFECTIVENESS of Radio, TV, Podcasts, Film.
The startling conclusion is this. EFFECTIVENESS in communicating the "message" is not really much of a consideration at all!
Ask the average man on the street what Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching (after 97 years of preaching) and you will NOT likely get any kind of coherent reply. They will tell you about the crazy negatives: "The let their children die" "The don't celebrate Christmas" "The won't let their kids join the scouts or use the Y.M.C.A."
This is an INEFFECTIVE preaching work ON PURPOSE.
Scientology keeps its core doctrines under wraps, too. For good reason.
Crackpot craziness is not much of a selling point.
SUCCESS STATISTICS are much better!
*** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 18 “Keep on the Watch” ***
Six Convincing Lines of Evidence
Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller. Yet, referring to the great tribulation, Jesus stated: “Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (Matthew 24:21, 22) Evidently, then, some of Christ’s “chosen ones” will still be on earth when the great tribulation begins.
there appears to be some geniune JW's on the site. If the site would have been open and blunt and called itself "Anti-JW Site", I would have avoided it.
I am an inactive JW but my wife and entire family and all my freinds are JW's. I live as a JW - everyone knows me as a JW. This site is a far greater source of spiritual enlightenment for me than the WTS has ever been or could ever be.
Stick around David, the feeling of your eyes opening is amazing. So many things that you have supressed your entire life all of sudden make sense.
It's very cool
