My wife's sister (lengthy but I need help)

by arko_n9ne 10 Replies latest jw experiences

  • arko_n9ne
    arko_n9ne

    In March 2005, I met my future wife Zuly. A month later, I met her sister Anahi.

    Zuly is younger than Anahi, and is the only one in her family to have never conformed to being a Witness. In fact, she just today told a guy in a Santa Clause costume that she had no clue about the outside world until she met me, and that she realized her family had been demonizing everything for nothing. She could have just told him what she wanted for Christmas, but she's new to the holiday.

    Zuly and I were dating behind her family's back because we needed to. She was living with them and they would never let a "Worldly" person date a potential recruit. Not kidding, this is what one of her brothers said to me. After about a year, they found out and Anahi told Zuly "you have to earn my trust back." It made Zuly feel like crap, but a few months later, Anahi was caught in a bold-faced lie.

    She told her family she was spending the week with her best friend Berenice. Three days later, her mother called Berenice because Anahi wasnt answering her phone. It turned out Anahi was spending the week with a boyfriend no one knew she had. And it was the second time she'd pulled this gag on her family.
    When I heard this, my heart jumped for joy because this girl was going to be turned in. It's what jw's do, or so I heard. But no, her family brushed it off.

    April 19th, 2008: Zuly's mother was in the hospital and the whole family was there. Despite the mutual disdain her mother and I share (even to this day) I was there. Anahi told everyone she had to go because she'd had a service appointment scheduled, and she left. Two months later, we learn that she actually got laid and knocked up.
    Small anecdote: Anahi had HG, so she was hospitalized. This is how we found out. With Zuly in the room, her mother tells Anahi "I expected this from Zuly, not from you." Zuly was still a virgin and remained one until a year later.

    So at this point, I've got a few questions to those who've had experiences with the SOP of the WTS and JWs.
    No one seemed to mind her leaving, so is it normal for a Jehovah's Witness to commit to a prospect when their family member(s) is hospitalized for a serious illness?
    I've always been told, from their oldest sibling Jesus that it's common place to notify an elder if their family members are blatantly sinning. When she spent a week at a mystery man's home, was that considered sinning? And if so, why would loyal Witnesses who ratted out cousins and aunts and uncles ignore her repeated offense?

    Anahi turned herself in because she couldn't hide the bag of medicine intrevenously attached to her arm. So she was censored. Honestly, I don't know the term because the family belongs to a spanish congregation. The term they use is "censurado" which means censored, but I'd never heard it applied to english congregations.
    The other brother Jorge, who I mention in my past posts, told me they almost threw the book at her, so to speak but she was lucky she wasn't disfellowshipped. I suggested that their uncle (who they spent a few years living with) being the senior elder of their congregation may have had a part in her luck. He told me that "especially because he was the elder" she was lucky.

    I learned this year that she was "censurado" privately (no announcement) and for only four months. She still hadn't had her child yet and was already free of punishment.

    Is this a normal punishment for people in her circumstance? I've met Witnesses disfellowshipped because they were naive enough to tell their friends they had doubts. This girl lied to friends and family, had sex before marriage, and only turned herself in when she knew they'd find out for themselves when they ask what the medicine was for or when her stomach got bigger. If this is normal, then they truly are unholy beasts. But could someone help make "the light brighter?" JW Pun!!!

    Now for the point:

    I felt bad for Anahi when she was pregnant. She was sick and it was really a coin toss of fate whether she lived or died. All of our disagreements and arguments were pointless here. She lost her faith, she lost her health, and this was a new world to her. Anahi was scared every day for the first three months since she found out she was pregnant because she didnt know if her or her baby would make it through to the next day. The doctors made multiple suggestions that she abort her child because at this point, it was a 70% chance Anahi wouldn't make it through if she kept her baby in utero.

    Anecdote: Jorge told me when she was sick that he hoped she'd abort the child because he was scared and didn't want to lose his sister. Today, when I brought up Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel suggesting this past February that the scripture gave provisions for a caller of his radio show to abort a conjoined twin (without hearing first if the mother or children were at risk), he told me, and I quote "When Anahi was pregnant, the doctors wanted her to abort her baby, but it's like, you have to have faith. You NEVER abort a child." Kinda weird that he'll change his mind and rewrite history when it comes to jabbing at evangelicals.

    There was a little prideful enjoyment of her situation because karma had finally gotten sick of her treating people like crap. But the majority of me was very concerned for her. She didn't get the shun treatment like everyone else. Her family was still very talkative to her and her best friend Berenice stuck by her through it all. Eventually, word got out like it was destined to at the Kingdom Hall, and alot of people wanted nothing to do with her. It brought out alot of humility in her.

    She started getting healthier and Zuly and I would help her with small things she couldn't do anymore (all the bedrest made her weak). Over time, she and I became friendly to each other. Putting our differences aside, I noticed all the ways she was very much like me. We're the same age. Have the same stubborn pride. We graduated early. We've got the same taste in music and movies (differing that she likes saturated chick flicks that I can't stand, and I watch horror movies that she cant stand). The JW taken out of her, it was a little sad to realize she and I could have been best friends from the getgo but the iron fist of the WTS kept it from happening.

    I wasn't aware at the time that she'd already been removed from punishment, and it wouldn't have occured to me because she was still talking to me regularly. I was there for her baby shower, and the cesarean, and I even got to hold her new daughter like everyone else who came. There was a time when she wouldn't be in a room alone with me and now I was holding her firstborn child.

    Over the next few months, I would babysit and play with her daughter. I'd do everything but change her. There's something creepy about someone changing diapers of a girl who isn't their daughter. Even so, Anahi saw that I was doing a good job with her kid. She saw that I wanted to be around and help her take care of this little girl.

    Anecdote: The daughter's father told Anahi shortly after the revelation she was pregnant to "take care of it." He was an elder at her congregation.

    Zuly and I heard the news that she was given back her privelages (albeit not knowing how long ago it happened) and it was a little worrisome to us. Would she go back to her old ways and forget us? Or would she realize that the Society was wrong and that she had real friends and family away from the congregation? It was good gravy for a while because she would still talk to us and invite us out. What we didn't know was that she was being harrassed by her "friends" at the congregation for getting pregnant. We didn't know that grownups reverted to highschool tactics of calling her a slut behind her back but lod enough for her to hear.

    If we'd known, would Zuly and I be able to comprehend that even though Anahi had her privelages restored, she was still on shakey ground in the Society's eyes? That these "friends" knew that any complaints from her would more than likely end with her being outed in a meeting and/or disfellowshipped?

    Honestly, it wouldn't matter because Jorge and Anahi, who by this time, were the only active Witnesses in the family, changed congregations to where only the Governing Body could know their names. But this move was costly to Zuly in the form of a sister, and costly to me in the form of a great friend. A new congregation meant being the publishers they were before the dirt on her name.

    Since moving to the new congregation, Anahi barely talks to Zuly, and outright ignores me. Her friend Berenice requested disassociation because she found herself with heavy doubts. Berenice, who'd been by Anahi's side from the moment we learned of her pregnancy, through the censor, and all the way through the childish gossip; there was no Anahi to return the love and loyalty.

    Faced with humanity, Anahi turned into an amazing person who could recognize her imperfections as something manageable, not as a reason for shame. She opened up and expressed herself to "apostates" in ways the Society condemns, though they stand to be the basics of human decency. I respected her. I loved her as a sister. And now she is lost to the darkside.

    MY MAIN QUESTION: Is this true? Is the great sister and amazing friend my wife and I had for only a short amount of time lost in the murky cloud of shameful domineering and cognitive dissonance? Can we ever find her or is she running through a forest not wanting to be found?

    I miss her. Zuly misses her. And now she is with a group who only knows her name when she wears nametags at the assemblies. Who only knows the wrongs she's ever done and none of the good, enriching aspects that they could never appreciate the way her real friends and family could.

    What can we do?

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi arko_n9ne and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry for you and your wife's loss of Anahi's authentic persona. You and your wife do not have many options. I would recommend reading Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves"), visiting Steve Hassan's website www.freedomofmind.com, visiting other websites that discuss improving communication with cult members like www.freeminds.org, read Raymond Franz's books (ie., "Crisis of Conscience"), do not discuss doctrine with Anahi, continue to send Anahi emails/notes with plenty of pictures of you and your wife having fun together, and invite Anahi to join you and your wife on outings. You also have other options like sending anoynomous emails like I wrote about in http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/211893/1/Youe28099ve-Got-Mail-TM, and when you see Anahi asking her "How do you feel you look very tired?" and then listen to what she says.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,

    Robert

  • arko_n9ne
    arko_n9ne

    @ABibleStudent I've read "Combatting Mind Control," as well as "Crisis of Conscience" (very emotional read, that book) as well as Robert Lifton's "Thought Control and the Psychology of Totalism," and a host of other thought control books. The odd thing was that I read them before I'd ever heard of a Jehovah's Witness.

    I'm already trained to never discuss doctrine with her. With Jorge or Jesus, I do it with a smile because I enjoy straining their brains and honestly don't have an opinion either way about their sticking with the Society. But with Anahi, you can tell her the sky is blue and if the Watchtower told her it was red, she'd argue that it was red. Usual JW trait (even referenced in the most recent edition of Crisis), but she's a little further gone. If you tell her the sky is blue, reference the light spectrum in relation to the atmosphere, the process of the eye's receptors in relation to the perception of mind, just go into detail proving indisputably the sky being blue...she'll swear you were the one who said it was red. She will tell her friends you said it was red (to discredit you in arguments), and will hold you accountable for saying the sky was red.

    Of course, this is all just an example. I've never had this "sky" conversation, but it should paint the picture of how much Anahi refuses to be wrong about her beliefs.

    But I do like your other ideas. Roads I've yet to travel. I'll try emailing her. Show her that Zuly and I are happy. Try opening dialogues with her and showing interest in her state of being.
    Maybe love-bomb her the way Witnesses do when you go to the meetings the first few times. Show her compassion and caring exists, let alone existing outside of the Society's grip.

    Thank you much.

    And for anyone else reading, I'll gladly take more suggestions. Anything to get Zuly her sister back. Anything to get my friend back. Anything to save a life.

  • ssn587
    ssn587

    arko_n(ne there is nothing like like some kind of tragedy happening to bring out the real colors in people. Then and only then will you see the true person behind the watchtower persona. Are they truly uncaring people or does the care and concern show up and manifest itself in deed or words of real kindness or are they harsh, or uncaring, and show no concern for the feeling or lot in life of the individual who experienced the tragedy. You may find a few people who truly are caring in the borg but it has been my experience with our tragedy that they are very few and far inbetween.

    hopefully love bombing her will help and letting her know you really care about her and show that you do hopefully will put a crack in the wall of her belief in the lies of the watchtower.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    No one seemed to mind her leaving, so is it normal for a Jehovah's Witness to commit to a prospect when their family member(s) is hospitalized for a serious illness?
    I've always been told, from their oldest sibling Jesus that it's common place to notify an elder if their family members are blatantly sinning. When she spent a week at a mystery man's home, was that considered sinning? And if so, why would loyal Witnesses who ratted out cousins and aunts and uncles ignore her repeated offense?

    It is not any different with JW's than with anyone that family members might "leave" the hospital to attend to other things. I wouldn't make such a big deal of that. As a matter of fact, if it's a JW-related appointment used as the excuse to leave, people might expect the person to keep the appointment.

    While it would be more typical to turn a family member in for "sin" as defined by their religion, I am not surprised that they did not. I have seen plenty of the elders trying to protect their family members from the rules. People are people. If one person is baptized into the JW's and secretly breaking the rules, they might very often try to hide it. It isn't always just for that person they hide it. It also has to do with protecting the family reputation.

    Anahi turned herself in because she couldn't hide the bag of medicine intrevenously attached to her arm. So she was censored. Honestly, I don't know the term because the family belongs to a spanish congregation. The term they use is "censurado" which means censored, but I'd never heard it applied to english congregations.
    The other brother Jorge, who I mention in my past posts, told me they almost threw the book at her, so to speak but she was lucky she wasn't disfellowshipped. I suggested that their uncle (who they spent a few years living with) being the senior elder of their congregation may have had a part in her luck. He told me that "especially because he was the elder" she was lucky.

    In normal JW terms (in English), she was "reproved." "Privately reproved" as no announcement took place. You are probably right that her uncle's "power" helped her. But it is typical that they wouldn't admit that.

    Is this a normal punishment for people in her circumstance? I've met Witnesses disfellowshipped because they were naive enough to tell their friends they had doubts. This girl lied to friends and family, had sex before marriage, and only turned herself in when she knew they'd find out for themselves when they ask what the medicine was for or when her stomach got bigger. If this is normal, then they truly are unholy beasts. But could someone help make "the light brighter?" JW Pun!!!

    It is very normal that, as long as they don't deny that JW's teach the truth, they allow a member to repent of their sins. Regardless of what they did, the process allows for the member to be even further under their thumbs. They were allowed to remain in, but they have to further kiss the elders' asses to get their commenting privileges back and remain in the flock.

    MY MAIN QUESTION: Is this true? Is the great sister and amazing friend my wife and I had for only a short amount of time lost in the murky cloud of shameful domineering and cognitive dissonance? Can we ever find her or is she running through a forest not wanting to be found?

    It sounds like Anahi went through the typical process of questioning herself on whether she should stay a JW or not, whether outsiders are as terrible as they say they are or not. In the end, she decided to remain with the JW's. There is always hope that she will come out one day, or hope that she will at least retain a portion of her genuine self throughout her life. Of your analogies above, the "running through the forest" one is probably closest.

    What can we do?

    Standard advice is to educate yourself on how to help cult members. The absolute best advice I can give you is to read Steve Hassan's two books, COMBATTING CULT MIND CONTROL and RELEASING THE BONDS; EMPOWERING PEOPLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

    Oh, you have great insight on understanding things here. Trust your guts on whether some things are right or wrong or hypocritical. But also, don't judge people based on the rules they are supposed to be living by. They and the group do that, but you can be better than that. Sure, people are hypocrites, but people follow their desires and break rules and they don't want to get into trouble. People are people.

  • arko_n9ne
    arko_n9ne

    thank you

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    @ABibleStudent I've read "Combatting Mind Control," as well as "Crisis of Conscience" (very emotional read, that book) as well as Robert Lifton's "Thought Control and the Psychology of Totalism," and a host of other thought control books. The odd thing was that I read them before I'd ever heard of a Jehovah's Witness.

    Hi arko_n9ne. Although you stated that you read "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and "Crisis of Conscience" before your personal experience with JWs, it might be worth your time to reread those books because very few people have total recall and your perspective has changed since you last read those books. I also encourage you to read Steve Hassan's book "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves". Steve Hassan wrote "Combatting Cult Mind Control" before he had worked with JWs, and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves" includes some insights to communicating with JWs.

    By the way from your additional description of Anahi's cult persona, I would doubt that Anahi will ever recover her authentic persona unless you are willing to spend a lot of money for professional help for her. Her cult persona may be working overtime to punish her for perceived transgressions. I hope that you and your wife have a fantastic and wonderful life together and that your frustrations about Anahi do not adversely affect your lives together.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • nugget
    nugget

    When someone has been humiliated and has to work for the groups approval then they want to be a part of the group even more than before. Your sister in law is demonstrating this. She was humiliated by the elder making her pregnant and then abandoning her, she was humiliated by people finding out about her pregnancy and then the snide comments in the hall. Even though she has left the original congregation she has to work for acceptance. This has made her want it more.

    Communication is so important and showing her love and acceptance is never wasted. Talk to her about hopes and ambitions and what she thinks she would have been doing if she hadn't been a witness. These help to connect with the authentic person.

    Poor girl at least she has loving family to go to if she wakes up to the truth.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Hi and welcome, you've included a huge amount of very personal and private information in your post (including people's names and relationships and private details about hospitalizations).

    You do need to take greater care about what post because a wide range of people read these threads. Despite your username, anyone who knows you - or of you - would be able to identify you from your very personally detailed post - unless you do not mind broadcasting personal information about others? Take care.

  • arko_n9ne
    arko_n9ne

    steve2 i understand what you are getting at. if i were anyone else i probably wouldnt get so detailed. but as it seems i need to post abo i will.ut me i guess i will. i have no mother or father. my older brother died and my younger brother is in prison for the next decade. i move around alot and never long enough to make lasting friendships.

    the only people i know who could identify me by the situation are the people listed. and they are the new wave of publishers who find the internet to be full of lies save for watchtower.org and jw media. they wont see this.

    currently there are over two hundred people in the united states with the same full name as anahi. so i feel itd be harder to identify her. especially since i havent used any last names it brings the number of people with just the first name anahi to over 1500 people.

    i really do understand that in traditional circumstances it would be very revealing and a breach of privacy. but since i left nothing but four untraceable names in assumption that they are their real names...im not sure it would fall into that category.

    if anyone thinks so then please send me an email with the congregation they go to and i will leave an apology with a vow to never reference people and experiences in the experiences section of the forums.

    thank you to everyone who saw my detailed thread as information to get a sense of where i am coming from and seeing it as a man looking for desperately needed help. i appreciate your time and advice greatly.

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