Where is the Statement That JWs Should Follow the GB Even If They Think They Are Wrong?

by Justitia Themis 62 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jonathan dough

  Specifically where in the New Testament does it prohibit "independent thinking?" Where, indeed, in light of Paul challenging Peter and putting him in his place, and Paul confronting the Jewish Christian "leaders" in Jerusalem with respect to circumcision and adherence to the Law, and the admonition to current believers in the NT to "test all things" and that we must make up our own minds? In light of repeated warnings to look out for the wolves, the false teachers and those putting forth a false gospel. How did Jesus deal with independent thinkers?

  Where is the specific language?
• 

  MrFreeze

  The WT thinks we should examine all things, even going as far to make sure the origins of your practice or belief are pure. That is unless you are talking about WT teachings, then the origin doesn't matter. Who cares if the 1914 date was originally made using pyramid/numerology? All that matters is what the WT is doing now. Wait, what about Mother's Day or birthdays? Nope, we need to look at the origin of that. It doesn't matter what it means now. It's all about how it started. Wait, birthdays don't have pagan origins? Oh... well errr... you need to do more field service.

  This religion is so stupid.
• 

  Quendi

  bookmark
• 

  wasblind

  The thing is, once you know someone is leading you wrong,

  and you continue the course, you also become at fault

  for example the bible tells you how to spot a false prophet

  and the WTS fits the description of what a false prophet is

  so anyone who stays in this Organization, with any knowledge of

  their failed prophecies, is putting their own salvation at risk

  James 4: 17 states : " If anyone knows how to do what is right and not do it, it is a sin for him."

  .

  And the bible most definitley tells you how to spot a false prophet.
• 

  Justitia Themis

  I don't know where it is, but I am sure there was a statement a couple of years ago along the lines of warning that the governing body might give instructions the reasons for which are not fully understood or that are difficult to follow but that faithful Witnesses should follow the instructions anyway

  That's the one I'm thinking of. Thanks Slimboy because I couldn't quite remember how it was phrased.
• 

  Justitia Themis

  Here's a gem!

  ***

  w009/1pp.9-10pars.15-16ReflecttheMentalAttitudeofChrist

  ***

  15

  During the first century, some who listened to Jesus displayed an improper attitude. On one occasion, Jesus said something that was difficult to understand. In response, “many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: ‘This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?’” Those who spoke in this way clearly had a wrong attitude. And their wrong attitude led to their ceasing to listen to Jesus. The record says: “Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.” Did all have a wrong attitude? No. The record continues: “Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: ‘You do not want to go also, do you?’ Simon Peter answered him: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to?’” In effect, Peter then answered his own question: “You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:60, 66-68) What a fine attitude! When confronted with explanations or refinements in understanding of the Scriptures that we may at first find difficult to accept, would it not be good to display the attitude shown by Peter? How foolish it would be to stop serving Jehovah or to speak in a manner contrary to “the pattern of healthful words” simply because some things are initially difficult to understand!—2 Timothy 1:13.

  16

  The Jewish religious leaders of the first century failed to manifest the mental attitude that Jesus had. Their resolute determination not to listen to Jesus was demonstrated when he raised Lazarus from the dead. For any with a right attitude, that miracle would have been proof positive that Jesus was sent from God. However, we read: “Consequently the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanhedrin together and began to say: ‘What are we to do, because this man performs many signs? If we let him alone this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.’” Their solution? “From that day on they took counsel to kill him.” Besides plotting to kill Jesus, they set out to destroy the living evidence of his being a miracle worker. “The chief priests now took counsel to kill Lazarus also.” (John 11:47, 48, 53; 12:9-11) How repugnant it would be if we were to foster a similar attitude and become irritated or upset over things about which we really should rejoice! Yes, and how dangerous!
• 

  Atlantis

  Jehovah's Witnesses "must" accept what the Governing Body dishes out even if they know the teaching is wrong or be disfellowshipped. These were the statements given "under oath" in a court of law!

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  C. Statements of Watchtower Officials in the Scotland Trial

  But despite their public teaching, note what officials admitted in the trial.

  Testimony of Frederick Franz:

  Q. Am I right that it was at one time forecast that in 1925 Abraham and other prophets would come back to earth?
  A. They were expected to come back approximately then,
  Q. But they did not come back?
  A. No.
  Q. It was published, was it not, to the body of Jehovah's witnesses, that that was expected in 1925?
  A. Yes.
  Q. But that was wrong?
  A. Yes, and Judge Rutherford admitted it to the Headquarters.
  (pp 120-121)

  And further:

  A. 1874 used to be understood as the date of Jesus' Second Coming spiritually.
  Q. Do you say, used to be understood?
  A. That is right.
  Q. That was issued as a fact which was to be accepted by all who were Jehovah's Witnesses?
  A. Yes.
  Q. That is no longer accepted, is it?
  A. No.
  ...
  Q. But it was a calculation which is no longer accepted by the Board of Directors of the Society?
  A. That is correct.
  Q. So that I am correct, I am just anxious to canvass the position, it became the bounden duty of the witnesses to accept this miscalculation? A. Yes.(pp 104,105)

  And furthermore:

  Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?
  A. We have to wait and see.
  Q. And in the meantime, the body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been following error?
  A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.
  Q. Error?
  A. Well, error. (p. 114)

  Testimony of Hayden C. Covington, head legal counsel for the Watchtower Society regarding the prediction that Jesus would return in 1874:

  Q. That was the publication of false prophecy?
  A. That was the publication of a false prophecy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophecy that was false or erroneous.
  Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?
  A. Yes, because you must understand, we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.
  ...
  Q. Back to the point now, a false prophecy was promulgated?
  A. I agree to that.
  Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's witnesses?
  A. That is correct.
  Q. If a member of Jehovah's witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong, and said so, would he be disfellowshipped?
  A. Yes, if he said so, and kept on persisting in creating trouble ... Our purpose is to have unity.
  Q. Unity at all costs?
  A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation, to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
  Q. And unity based on an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
  A. That is conceded to be true.
  Q. And the person who expresses his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the covenant, if he was baptised?
  A. That is correct.
  Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
  A. I think....
  Q. Would you say yes or no?
  A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly. (pp 346-348)

  And also:

  Q. But then it is the case, is it not, that on occasion you have not spoken what is not true?
  A. I have agreed to that many times, and I will agree to it many times more, that we have made mistakes and have proclaimed error and have had to correct ourselves many times ...
  Q. Do you know of any religion of the world, as you would put it so called, which has as its set up of publishing what is later proved to be untrue but requiring of its members that under pain of spiritual death they must accept that untruth?
  A. I do not know of any other organisation except Jehovah's Witnesses. (p. 356)

  http://gospelway.com/religiousgroups/watchtower.php

  Atlantis (Download the Douglas Walsh Trial here, it's free)

  http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/the-1954-walsh-trial-transcript/834182
• 

  Atlantis

  More recent quotes:

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  Mind Control Quotes (Credit: OnTheWayOut)

  Many are not sure or deny that WTS is a dangerous mind-control cult. Here is some food for thought on the "dangerous mind-control" part of that. (Cut and pasted from http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=122936768817 Jehovah's Disfellowshipped Witnesses/Facebook)
  
  “God uses The Watchtower to communicate to his people: it does not consist of men's opinions”. - The Watchtower January 1, 1942 P 5
  
  “If we do not see a point at first we should keep trying to grasp it, rather than opposing and rejecting it and presumptuously taking the position that we are more likely to be right than the discreet slave.” - The Watchtower February 1, 1952 P 79-80
  
  “We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste. We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave's provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord's visible organization and not be so foolish as to put against Jehovah's channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings," - Watchtower Feb. 1, 1952, p. 79-80
  
  “If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall as the Bible says, 'believe all things’ all the things that the Watchtower brings out”. - Qualified to be Ministers 1955, Page 156
  
  “Newcomers must learn to fall in line with the principles and policies of the New World society and act in harmony with them. Sometimes it becomes rather difficult for some of our new associates to make the change. They are prone to be a little rebellious or unruly. But to become genuinely a part of the New World society it is imperative that proper respect for theocratic arrangement and order be shown. A humble, obedient mental attitude is required”. The Watchtower June 1, 1956 P 345
  
  “Showing respect for Jehovah's organization really resolves itself down to our attitude toward God's visible channel and the trust that we place in our proved, faithful brothers. If we have become thoroughly convinced that this is Jehovah's organization, that he is guiding and directing his people, then we shall not be unsettled by anything that happens. We will not 'forsake our mother's teaching' by immediately beginning to criticize and find fault”. - The Watchtower May 1, 1957 P 283-285
  
  “Respond to the directions of the organization as you would the voice of God”. - The Watchtower, June 15, 1957 P 370
  
  “Jehovah's witnesses, though international, are 'one heart and soul,' of the 'same mind' and the same line of thought”.The Watchtower August 1, 1960 P 474
  
  “In Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to that very thing”. - The Watchtower June 1, 1967 P 338
  
  “It is true that some points are difficult to grasp at first, but instead of complaining or arguing about them, it may be better to leave it alone for a while, waiting further clarification. We must avoid complaining even about small things”. - The Watchtower August 1, 1967 p 469-470
  
  “The Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind”. - The Watchtower October 1, 1967 p 587
  
  “.... [Jehovah's Witnesses] must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it”. - The Watchtower October 1, 1967 P 590
  
  “The Watchtower study conductor, who presides over this meeting, has an important responsibility. This study enables all to be united in the same line of thought”. - The Watchtower August 1, 1972 P 458
  
  “At times, some bring to the attention of the "slave" class various doctrinal or organizational matters that they feel ought to be revised. The proper spirit after offering suggestions is to be content to leave the matter to the prayerful consideration of the mature brothers directing the work in Jehovah's organization. But if those making the suggestions are not content with that and continue to dispute the subject in the congregations with a view to getting others to support them, what then? That would create divisions, and could subvert the faith of some”. - The Watchtower June 1, 1982 p 20
  
  “Fight Against Independent Thinking [...] How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization”. – The Watchtower 1/15/83 p. 22
  
  “Avoid Independent Thinking. Avoid questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.” - The Watchtower January 15, 1983 P22
  
  “Such thinking is an evidence of pride. […] If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: "Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God's organization? No, we cannot!” - The Watchtower 1/15/83 p. 27
  
  “Some who point out that the organization has had to make some adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous? […] Fight against independent thinking”. - The Watchtower January 15, 1983 p 27
  
  “Although walking with confidence in Jehovah's leadership may not be easy at times...To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of the 'faithful and discreet slave,' and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land”. - The Watchtower June 1, 1985 Page 20
  
  “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?” - The Watchtower March 15, 1986 Issue, P14
  
  “Beware of those who try to put forward their own contrary opinions”. The Watchtower March 15, 1986 P 17
  
  “First of all, there is the matter of being obedient […] one feature of 'the wisdom from above' is being 'ready to obey.' […] Due to background and upbringing, some may be more given to independent thinking and self-will than others. Perhaps this is an area where we need to discipline ourselves and 'make our mind over' so that we can perceive more clearly what the 'will of God' is”. The Watchtower February 1, 1987 P 19
  
  “Discipline may come from someone else. It may come as a look, a frown, a word, a gesture”. – The Watchtower 10-1-87, p. 18
  
  “In the morning, we will receive some timely instruction warning us against […] going astray in matters of food and drink, grooming, and recreation”. - The Watchtower 5/1/1989 p 29
  
  "In the world, there is a tendency to reject leadership. As one lecturer said:‘the rising education level has improved the talent pool such that followers have become so critical that they are almost impossible to lead.' But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God's organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us." - The Watchtower September 15, 1989 P 23
  
  “We need to show respect for the direction of the elders even in small matters. So we might ask ourselves: Am I receptive when elders give direction on seat saving at conventions, our manner of dress, and so forth?" The Watchtower 9/15/1989 p 25
  
  "Avoid Going Astray" in the area of food and drink, dress and grooming, Extreme styles of dress - immodest, bizarre, outlandish, even shocking - must be avoided. Sloppy, overly casual, or tight fitting clothes are out of place. The issue is not whether a style is fashionable, but whether it is appropriate”. - The Watchtower 1/15/1990 p 26
  
  “Since the Bible does not mention abstinence from beverages containing caffeine, the decision about coffee or tea must be made individually”. - The Watchtower 2/15/1990 p 29
  
  “As loyal servants of Jehovah, why would we even want to peek at the propaganda put out by rejecters of Jehovah's table?” - The Watchtower July 1, 1994 P 12-13
  
  “If some tinge of doubt about Jehovah[‘s] organization has begun to linger in your heart, act quickly to rout out of the mind any tendency to complain, to be dissatisfied with the way things are done in the congregation. Cut off anything that feeds such doubts." - The Watchtower 2/1/96
  
  “Rather than being critical, let us maintain a spiritually healthy view of the information received through personal study and congregation meetings”. - The Watchtower September 15, 2002 P 16-18
  
  “Strong faith, in turn, fortifies us to obey Jehovah, even when his requirements seem to go contrary to human reasoning”. The Watchtower October 1, 2002 P 16

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/182080/1/Watchtower-Quotes-on-Mind-control

  Atlantis
• 

  slimboyfat

  Good compilation. The last one is pretty close, but I think there was a more recent one that was even more specific. Surely someone can remember where it was?
• 

  Alpaca

  An oldy but a goody for the benefit of those who haven't seen it:

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