Am only now discovering/reading the Apocrypha

by Muddy Waters 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I ordered a private company's King James Bible with art plates by Rembrandt. It is a massive family Bible with leather binding, very elegant typesetting and several ribbons. The only thing it lacks is Jesus' sayins in red. It costs a fortune. Nevertheless, it was worth it. I am worthy of a very nice King James Bible. The NWT was just a silly phase.

    The KJ is too thick for routine reading. It needs one of those pedestal things you find with unabridged dictionaries. I found a NIV leather bound, Jesus' sayings in red, ribboned Bible with anthropological dates. It was the best I could find at the local Christian book store.

    Recently, I saw an art exhibit, Rembrandt and the Faces of Jesus. He was the first great Protestant artist and used actual Jews as model of Christ's face. The show made me pull down my KJB. The plates are extraordinary.

    Isn't there a difference between the Apocrpha(sp) and the Gnostics. The Gnostics were discovered recently. I purchased Gnostics for Dummies.

  • Muddy Waters
    Muddy Waters

    WOW, you guys are so AWESOME!!!! THANK YOU for all the links to such great sites and resources. Sorry for not getting back to you all sooner, was away for most of the day.

    STRYMECKIRULES, I loved that site: sacred-texts.org !! I've ordered some of the info already, lol. The site is HUGE and has so much information, I could be reading forever. Amazing what's out there!! Thank you!!

    BELLA: I am quite loving the book of Sirach! Is Judith the one where somebody went blind after a birdie pooped in his eyes? Maybe that's Tobit…. I'll have to take another look at Judith. What are your thoughts about it? (excuse me if I still sound like I'm at a JW meeting, LOL!)

    SHANA: Wow, that's quite a link as well which you recommended. I have definitely bookmarked it and am starting to check it out. It's neat having so many historical writings, unbelievable because I never knew until now just how much is out there! It would take a dozen lifetimes to go through everything. Funny how the Catholics took stuff out, and the Protestants took stuff out that the Catholics left in…… hmph. It really is up to the individual to make up their own mind, isn't it. Thank you as well for your link and recommendations. :)

    SERENITYNOW: Ha, had to laugh because when I went into the store and bought a Catholic bible, I was really feeling like I was doing something very bad. When I saw those extra books in the Bible, I was wondering if the bible would burst into flames or something. But my curiosity overcame my fear, and even as I began reading, my mind was very critical and closed off. I am still filtering so much stuff through a JW "lens", it will take a long time, I suspect, for anything to begin having clarity or non-bias.

    AZAZEL: (ha, your name! The goat that wandered off into the wilderness…!) The NWT is still so familiar to me that when I read another translation, I have to constantly compare it to verses I'm familiar with from that text. And many times I've been surprised to see an almost totally different meaning! The very expressions in the NWT are misleading and quite biased (the word "apostate" in the NWT is translated as "godless" in many other versions, for example. And when the NWT says "nations", most other translations use "Gentiles". Again, a whole different shade of meaning!) And THANK YOU for the link to e-sword. I've downloaded it to my computer (had to get another program to open it, as I use a mac). It looks AWESOME (seems like I'm using that word a lot, LOL!) I can't wait to use this program more fully. Thank you again!

    MORBIDZBABY: That's amazing about your mom finding the NWT so difficult to read after using your NIV! Right now I'm finding I quite like the NRSV, it's so crisp and concise (am so used to the wordiness of the NWT, it feels like a breeze, like a totally different Bible!) It's also very weird that the GB/Society discourages us from using other translations! That just bogglers my mind.

    Again, thank you all so much for your great replies, insights, recommendations, experiences, sharing which Bible versions and apocryphal books you enjoy, and the fantastic websites.

  • Azazel
    Azazel

    Your so welcome Muddy Waters , contrary to the WTS belief we are not mentally diseased but have a wide range of skills and life experiences.

    Welcome home and if we can help you , you only have to ask.

    and yes im happy to load up with your sins and take a trip to the spiritual wilderness ( JW) and dump them at a KH for you

    Az

  • Shanagirl
    Shanagirl

    Muddy Waters,

    I'm so glad to find a duscussion on these writings. I am very comfortable with integrating their explanations in my own continueing research. I do find a lot of it not only comforting to know, but all logical to accept as fact with many of the texts. MY core beliefs stem from ealy age being taught in Catholic Chruch and schools. As a teenager I had issues with some of the early Catholic Church teachings, always wanted to understand the Bible and so began studying with JW woman. Was baptized within 8 months . Met my husband, we fell in love during that time, married and had 4 children. Life experience in the WT world proved to be more than stressful over the 25 years we were in the cult. Faded quickly and after being one of those families that were hurt by WT mistreatment of Sexual Abuse accusers. A lot of pain and disillusions and serious bullying from the elders towards our family, and disfellowshipping me and my husband, proved to be too much. I came out with PTSD and my therapist told me I had a normal reaction to an abnormal event enabled by this spiritually abusive authorataian religion. It was very freeing to leave, and reinvent myself and felt glad our family was able to get out together. My husband and I tried to visit another bible based church, but it just brought up to many negative feelings in our hearts that were left over from WT abuse. So now we're comfortable not belonging to any church community. Just recently I began reading the Gnostic Books of Apocrypha. I spent a lot of time looking up many terms in dictionery, words I didn't quite understand. But these writings seem to answer many questions I had as a JW, and I find them very enlightening and comforting. Upon reading I've learned so far that there is the Great ineffable Unnameable, Pure, True, Good God the TRue God, who is the True Great Invisible Light and Supreme Father, the All. Residing alone in the fullness of the Pleroma the highest of the heavenly Aeons. This Spirt of immeasurable Light looked in the spring of life and by the power of his thought he brought forth an emanation of his light and power was like his, the feminine aspect of himself. Being Androngenous, his feminine courterpart the forethought of all and the perfect Aeon, she was known as Barbelo. She emminated the first thought, his image, she became the womb of everything. For it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother Father , to the first man, the Holy Spirt, the thrice male, the thrice powerful, the thrice named Powerful , thrice androngenous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones and the first to come forth of the Father of Light.

    And From the pure light that emanated from her and surrounding The Father, a spark ignited from him and she conceived another pure light – the "Only-Begotten Child" of His, or the divine Autogenes as the text called him. The divine Autogenes was the aeon Christ - the "Anointed One". Like his father and mother, Autogenes (Christ) was pure and holy. Everything the Son (Autogenes/Christ) have done, he work for the glories of his Father (Spirit) and Mother (Barbelo). Here are the Gnostic holy Trinity – Father, Mother and Son, like the Orthodox concept of the Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the three perfect aeons.

    From the Spirit and the Christ, they produced four helpers for Autogenes (Christ), known as the Luminaries or the Light Aeons. Under each light-aeon, there were three aeons, making a total of twelve aeons.

    • The light-aeon Armozel (or Harmozel) was the first angel, and with him, was three aeons – grace, truth and form.
    • The second light-aeon was Oriel (or Oroiael; possibly the archangel Uriel), with three other aeons – conception, perception and memory.
    • The third light was Daveithai, who was in company of understanding, love and idea.
    • The fourth light aeon was Eleleth, and with him – perfection, peace and wisdom (Sophia).

      All four light aeons and twelve aeons served Autogenes (Christ). Christ works on the Spirit's will, while the Spirit works through Christ. Four other beings dwelled with four Luminaries. Pigera-Adamas or Adamas, the perfect human being (Cosmic Man), lived with Armozel. Seth, the son of Adamas, dwelled with Oriel. The Posterity of Seth, or the souls of holy people, lived with Daveithai. Finally, the last aeon known as the Souls, those who are not acquainted with the truth or gnosis until later, dwelled with Eleleth.

      It is at this point that the text shifted its focus away from the Triad, to the lowest and the youngest of the twelve aeons – Sophia (the aeon of Wisdom).

    MW I really think these stories are facinating. This small piece of writing is from the Apocryphon of John, as told be John the son fo Zebeddee whe Jesus appeared to him after his resurrection, he told John about all of the differnt abodes of he heavenly Pleroma, goes on to explain how the evil creator god is emminated in lower heavely aeons, uses the light and power from the aeon Sofia to create his own creations alone in universe of his created matter in shadow. In the shadow of his world he ignorantly believes he's the only one and creates myiads of angels and archons, who are defective as he is. He creates heavens and thrones for these angels and archons, proclaims to be the only god, there is no other, he will not share his worship because he is a jealous god. His name is given by his Mother Sofia and she calls him Yaltobaoth, and proceeds to hide him in the shadow of dark matter. So he is unable to emminate light because the shadow has dimmed the light he got from his mother.

    Sophia and the Demiurge

    Most Gnostics see Sophia or "Wisdom" as the most important aeon, after the Autogenes (Christ). Sophia was important, because she set in motion the creation of the material world.

    Sophia was a Greek name for wisdom. Another name frequently associated with Sophia, was Pistis or "Faith". Sometimes Pistis was seen as a separate being, where she was seen as the mother of Sophia, but often Pistis was just another name for Sophia. Frequently, various texts used the two name together, as Pistis Sophia, as in the The Hypostasis of the Archons.

    Sophia as the mother, should not be confused with Barbelo, the perfect mother. Whereas Barbelo was known as "Forethought", Sophia was equated "Afterthought". Here we see the text is influenced with these names (Forethought/Afterthought),

    Sophia, tried to emulate the invisible Spirit (Father) in producing Barbelo, by created an image of herself. Meaning that she wanted to produce an offspring, without either consort or the approval of her Father (Spirit). As an aeon, she did have the power to do so, but she wasn't perfect like the great Spirit, or like the other two perfect aeons, Barbelo and the Autogenes.

    She was horrified when she spawned an ugly, imperfect creature – a lion-faced serpent with eyes of fire, whom she called Yaldabaoth.

    Sophia cast her offspring out of pleroma, and hid her child within a thick cloud from the other aeons, because of her embarrassment and shame.

    Yaldabaoth was the first of the archon ("ruler") and he stole his mother's power, so that she wasn't able to escape from the cloud. Despite gaining Sophia's aeonic power, he was weak, but he was ambitious and power hungry.

    Since the archons, including Yaldabaoth, were androgynous beings, Yaldabaoth fathered twelve archons, giving each a bit of his power. They were named Athoth, Harmas, Kalila-Oumbri, Yabel, Adonaiou (or Sabaoth), Cain, Abel, Abrisene, Yobel, Armoupieel, Melceir-Adonein and Belias. Seven archons would rule seven heavens and fivein the abyss, which Yaldabaoth and the archons created. Each archon would rule a heaven (or the abyss), and created 365 angels to help them.

    According to The Origin of the World, there is an interesting account about his children. Yaldabaoth created a realm, called matter. And from this matter, Yaldabaoth created seven androgynous offspring, like himself, to rule seven realms or heavens of chaos. Each offspring have masculine and feminine names.

    His first son opened his eye for the first time, he said "Eee!", so Yaldabaoth called his son Eee-a-o, which is ‘Yao’. The second opened his eyes and said "Eh!", so his father called him ‘Eloai’, while the third said "Asss!" so he was called ‘Astaphaios’.

    SambathasPronoia (Forethought)
    YaoLordship
    SabaothDeity
    AdonaiosKingship
    ElaiosJealousy
    OraiosWealth
    AstaphaiosSophia (Wisdom)

    In his arrogance, Yaldabaoth boasted to the other archons that:

    "I am God and there is no other God beside me!" – The Apocryphon of John (II 11:20)

    Yaldabaoth was weak and ignorant, because he didn't realise that were any power greater than him. He thought he was the First. Yaldabaoth had sinned for saying these words, which was why he was called Samael – "the blind god". He has another name – Saklas, a name usually assigned to Satan.

    According to The Hypostasis of the Archons and On the Origin of the World, it was Sophia, who rebuked him and gave him this name, Samael.

    "You are mistaken, Samael" – The Hypostasis of the Archons (II 87:2)

    It was at this point that the voice of the invisible Spirit was heard, rebuking Yaldabaoth and the archons. They trembled in fear, and saw reflected on the water, the image of God (Spirit), in human form.

    According to The Hypostasis of the Archons, after this boast, he challenged the voice:

    "If any other thing exists before me, let it be shown forth to me!" – The Hypostasis of the Archons (II 94:25)

    So Sophia stretch forth her finger and brought limitless light into matter and the region of chaos. The chief archon trembled in fear.

    When Yaldabaoth and the other archons heard the voice. They sought this voice and traced the voice to the abyss, where the chief archon saw the reflection of his mother in the water. They want take hold of the image but could not. They were ignorant and weak, because they didn't understand that the image was reflected from above.

    "I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside me."
    But by announcing this he indicated to the angels who attended him that there exists another God. For if there were no other one, of whom would he be jealous? – The Apocryphon of John (II 13:9-12)

    If there are no other gods then why would he be jealous?

    It was at this point that Sophia realised what she have done, and repented. She prayed to her Father for her deliverance, and the restoration of the power that her son (Yaldabaoth) had stolen from her. Her light was diminishing, since the theft of her power. She was moving about, back and forth.

    It was at this point that the voice of the invisible Spirit was heard, rebuking Yaldabaoth and the archons. They trembled in fear, and saw reflected on the water, the image of God (Spirit), in human form.

    Shana

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    What is inportant about parabiblical literature like the Apocrypha is that they help document the ideas in Second Temple Judaism in between the time the OT canon drops off (third century BC except for Daniel) and when the NT canon begins in the first century AD. All of a sudden there is a whole host of new ideas in the NT (and rival Jewish factions like the Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Essenes) that there is hardly a trace of in the OT. There really isn't a gap between the two; there is an enormous body of literature throughout the period. This literature attests the rather huge amount of conceptual variety in early Judaism, and greatly enhances understanding of the NT because it places these ideas in a historical context.

    Also, ideas of OT canon that were adopted by Jerome in the fourth century AD are not representative of what was thought to be scripture by the writers of the NT. The influence of Sirach and Wisdom on parts of the NT is quite plausible, and the estimation of 1 Enoch as genuine prophecy in Jude (with a verbatim quotation of 1 Enoch 1:9 along with numerous other allusions to the book in Jude 6, 12-13, 14-15, 16), and its reference as "scripture" in the apostolic fathers and in Tertullian shows that Christians did not always have the same ideas of canon that we have today. (Even today 1 Enoch and Jubilees are still canonical in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church)

  • Isidore
    Isidore

    "Apocrypha" is really not the proper term for these additional books. They actually are called "Deuterocanonical". The term "Apocrypha" was used by Martin Luther in a derogatory manner because the books conflicted with his doctrine of man being saved by faith alone, apart from works. Since he could not remove the books altogether, as they has always been accepted as canon, he placed the books in the back of his revised order of the canon.

    The Guttenberg and the 1611 first editions of the King James, for example, had these additional 7 books in them. It wasn't until "Scottish Bible Societies" in the 18th century, when printing their own massed produced bibles (sould familiar?) that these books began to be removed from between the covers altogether. Funny enough, one of their listed reasons for doing so was because they felt that if people should read these books, they might become Catholic.

    There are several references to these 7 books in the New Testament. In addition, a commonly accepted canard in Proetstant circles is the St. Jerome attempted to remove them when producing the Latin Vulgate because he disgareed with the teachings implied in them. Martin Luther, and other Protestant denominations have pointed to this as evidence that St. Jerome himself did not agree with these being canonical. This is simply not true. St. Jerome was perhaps the greatest Hebrew, Greek and Latin linguist of the ancient world, and he felt that since he did not have extant copies of these books in Hebrew, they should not not be part of the Hebrew canon. He was overruled by Pope Damasus because these books have always been accepted as canon by Christians, so St Jerome relented and included them. It wasn't until years later, with the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that we had proof that these books were indeed found to be written in Hebrew as well as Greek, showing that although St Jerome did not have access to copies at that time in Hebrew, they did in fact exist.

    All this is barely scratching the surface and there is much, much more to this story than these quick highlights.

  • Terry
    Terry

    A few thoughts of mine I'll share, if you don't mind.

    The toys I played with as a kid are now going for big bucks on Ebay. My favorite cowboy gun and holster is over $500.

    So what?

    The toy acquired "value" because of the way people "feel" about them.

    That is the first point. I'll come back to it in a minute.

    Secondly, for about one thousand five hundred years the christian bible contained 73 books. That was normal. That was considered holy. God approved.

    After Martin Luther's day we find the "normal" down to 66 books.

    Martin Luther himself wanted to REMOVE the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation.

    Think about that for a long moment.

    What is the VALUE of my toy gun as a kid? What is the value now?

    People IMPUTE value according to how they think about things.

    To persons who view the bible as "preserved" by God supernaturally I have to ask: "If God preserved it, was it before or after Martin Luther?"

  • wobble
    wobble

    Does anybody know exactly which books Rabbi Jonathan smuggled out of Jerusalem before the destruction of 70CE ? Surely they would be the ones he considered "canonical" ? (from a Jewish perspective)

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