Closing down of all non-native congregations in The Netherlands

by Gorbatchov 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  Joey Jo-Jo

  Azazel wrote: Here in Australia some years ago the Potugese congregations as a whole were shutdown and many elders removed.

  I never got a definite reason why but a ex-member of one of the Potugesse congs said their was infighting between elder bodies.

  I can attest to that and provide further information, during the late 70's Portuguese migration to Australia was high and slowly decrease, I recall that during field service (1996- onwards) many I spoke to could speak english and others at least some english,some (50+) couldn't, during my time at the bankstown portuguese congregation many moved to closer local english or spanish congregations, this should give you an idea why they became smaller and closed.

  I think the first to go was Melbourne, Adelaide never had a portuguese cong (would be too small, they all went to the spanish), Perth never had one, the sydney cong (bankstown) close because of personality clashes between elders, one elder was mocked publicly during a talk another elder was giving lol, I also believe it was because the cong was not growing for a while now, and they all had their little group of friends so bethel closed bankstown, wollongong's (there were two port congs part of sydney NSW) was impacted on this decision and closed as well, some were elderly that couldn't speak english.

  This is not to say that some were disfellowship, some stop coming, young ones lost interest as they became older, but it was not the reason why they closed.
• 

  avengers

  I haven't heard anything about this.

  (doesn't mean it's not true though)

  Strange that people all over the world know this and
  I havn't heard any Dutchmen talk about it.

  We'll see.

  Andy

  ps.
  Not that I give a hoot.
• 

  Dutch-scientist

  I also didnt heard this but i will check these days.

  ds
• 

  Azazel

  Thanks Joey Jo-Jo i could only remember the brother a customer of mine was abit evasive when i asked him about it.

  PM me and i will see if you know him and some of my old friends who were in the Porto cong here.

  Az
• 

  dozy

  Interesting.

  The impression I have always had is that the WTBTS isn't a big fan of foreign language congregations. I have a close relative who is a COBOE in one , and he is always complaining about the lack of support from the Branch , who (in his words) "just aren't interested in the foreign language field". I wouldn't be at all surprised if the WTBTS decided to merge them with the native speaking congregations.

  The WTBTS struggles to regulate them and they tend to operate outside of the usual channels , with their own translation systems , made up translated publications etc. And they act as a magnet , pulling out the young & enthusiastic & zealous from the native language congregations and leaving the bored , lazy & incompetent. Getting any older elders to look after the congregation is very difficult , so sisters do a lot of the work (and we know what the WTBTS thinks about that!) In terms of tangible results , they are also very mixed.

  I gave a public talk (translated) in a Chinese congregation once - there were only a couple of bible studies in attendance - the rest were JWs , including students from HK who were already JWs anyway (and frankly spoke better English than me.). It seemed to be something of a social club for young pioneers who had become bored with the English field & had discovered a new purpose in their life. Their ministry seemed to be largely composed of driving around the city following up foreign language slips or street work where they hunted in packs for people of Chinese persuasion.
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  scotoma

  I have heard of squabbles among foreign language groups in the US. Sometimes it is a female who has time to become profiecient in the foreign language (myanamar and mong groups ) and the American brothers don't like having to defer to a sister who is the master of the language. There have been sisters who relish their new found authority and they aren't afraid to take over - conducting field service meetings etc.

  I think the distraction of talking to people in their native language is probably going to end. Those who are attracted to these groups are usually very smart people (mostly women) who are bored to death with the conventional gab of the snake pit on wheels zig zagging around town calling on old people who will take literature just to interact with another live person. They get to actually feel like missionaries and can boast about how many rice JW's they study with. They don't realize that these people just want to assimilate and are willing to act interested to get some english language experience. The down side is that these people who are bored also like having a following - an entourage of admirers that they can parade around with at assemblies.
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  blondie

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Westergaard

  http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/04/12/netherlands-to-immigrants-learn-dutch-or-fear-deportation/
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  Azazel pm sent.
• 

  Roski

  Too true about the demographics of the foreign language groups/congregaions and some of the sisters/pioneers were in stark contrast to the elders chosen to work with (sort out) the groups. They always seemed to be the most inappropriate choices. It also provided an extended marriage pool for locals. The groups allowed the people to have some mutual (cultural) support which, in my experience - the local brothers weren't interested in supplying anyway. There always seemed to be the idea that the FLG weren't up to scratch spiritually - but that may have just been where I was....xenophobia was/is alive and well.
• 

  iarts

  A few notes from experience of local foreign language cong that dealt mostly with middle-eastern asylum seekers:

  • Pioneers get to count some time learning the language as ministry time. Big plus for pioneers.
  • No house-to-house ministry; mostly return visits or street work. Big plus for pioneers.
  • 'Rice christians' were commonplace - witnesses have 'studies' round for meals - counts as field ministry hours. Big plus for pioneers. Illegal immigrants like free food.
  • Lots of time spent socializing
  • Most studies wanted help with immigration and to learn English - not really interested in Bible.
  • Some asylum seekers were extremely dangerous.
  • Foreign language CO warned elders of commonplace problem in foreign languages congregations: Witnesses join foreign language congs to 'hide' from their previous cong. Then they get up to all sorts of naughtiness. This cong had DFs for adultery and homosexuality.
  • Congregation evetually shut down due to lack of asylum seekers coming to this area.