Whistleblower — Watchtower’s Dump

by Marvin Shilmer 100 Replies latest jw friends

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  cedars

  Mickey mouse - I hear what you're saying, but I have to agree with slimboyfat. The information is virtually meaningless without a name being attached to that letter. It has nothing more than curiosity value and the "what if it were true" factor.

  I've only been among you for a short while, so correct me if I'm wrong. However, I can't think of a more blatant example of the Society condemning a certain practice and then being caught red-handed doing the very same thing. The fact that this has been verified by a regulatory body and picked up by local media demonstrates that the incident is more than just conjecture. However, the regulatory body doesn't know (and isn't concerned with) the hypocrisy aspect. They just see it as "slapped wrists" for the offender and one more mess to clean up. The only way you can highlight the hypocrisy aspect to any tangible extent is to have first-hand accounts of what happened, which we are NOT going to get from the DEC.

  I think we all know about "repercussions" and how vindictive the Society can be towards individuals who turn the spotlight on them. Barbara Anderson is a prime example. I admit that it would take a huge incentive for me to breach my own anonymity. However, whoever this informant is, I genuinely believe he holds the power to seriously dent the Watchtower's credibility. All I'm asking is that he is told that.

  Cedars
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Slimboyfat writes:

  “I don't think the poor standards of proof JWs may practise should be relied upon to excuse poor sourcing of information when the shoe is on the other foot.”

  Neither do I. So what is your point? I have not suggested information I share should be used beyond its worth.

  “I studied history for my degree so using sources without any indication of provenance simply goes against the grain for me. Marvin's blog is really frustrating in this regard, because he comes up with a lot of interesting stuff, but without important contextual details a lot of it is of dubious value. On top of which it sometimes appears that the lack of details about provenance is entirely unnecessary.”

  I share what I can of sources. When I am unable to share more for reasons beyond my control then I do not. This is no reason not to share information I can so that other researchers with their own sources can pursue matters further, if they wish.

  “Such as with the letter from A H MacMillan that startingover found among his grandfather's papers:…”

  Oh boy! Not that again! Get a life, and try to avoid presupposing the worst of folks.

  You have one hell of a bee in your bonnet. You might want to get that checked. It’s unhealthy.

  Marvin Shilmer

  http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
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  cedars

  Marvin:

  Oh boy! Not that again! Get a life, and try to avoid presupposing the worst of folks.

  You have one hell of a bee in your bonnet. You might want to get that checked. It’s unhealthy.

  I don't understand why you are being so derisory of slimboyfat when his concerns about the material are legitimate. When he asked his initial questions on this thread, your responses were blunt and dismissive at best.

  I really appreciate the fine work that you do, and your blog is an important source of potential leads. However, it might help to pre-empt any of these confrontations if you acknowledge any shortfalls in your material in the OP, and don't snap at people when they inevitably point these flaws out.

  Cedars
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  Mickey mouse

  You have one hell of a bee in your bonnet. You might want to get that checked. It’s unhealthy.

  I have to admit I laughed out loud at that.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Cedar,

  I will not engage in a pissing contest, so feel free to rain onto my work and/or my responses whatever you wish. If you don’t like my responses then I suggest you make yourself happier and stop reading them. My work is done at my pleasure and no one else’s.

  Whiners carp on and on about what they do not have handed to them without bothering to make use of what is handed to them. I am not unaware of academic standards of excellence, and fully understand that more information is better than less information. What I share at my blog is what is available to share. When and/or if I can share more then I do. Whining about what is not included with information on my blog will not change this.

  Other whiners carp on and on after presupposing some preferential third-party has not been assigned due credit. These folks are cry-babies who let presupposition make them angry.

  Much of my blog is simple sharing and/or reporting. Either it helps folks in their own research or it does not. Either way, I don’t care. One thing I do not do is to assert a given piece of information on my blog should be taken to mean more than it represents at face value, whatever that is. I share information and let folks make of it whatever they will.

  All assertions of information deserve heat and mine are no exception.

  Marvin Shilmer

  http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
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  cedars

  Marvin

  That wasn't the response I was hoping for, particularly since I was only trying to offer constructive advice, and in so doing acknowledge how helpful your work is. In no way could any reasonable person interpret my remarks as an attempt to engage in a "pissing contest" or "rain" on your work in any way.

  And if you don't care, why are you doing it?

  Cedars
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  cedars

  All assertions of information deserve heat and mine are no exception.

  I agree with this wholeheartedly. The problem, as I see it, is that you don't seem to be able to take any heat.

  I'm not saying it's easy to do the work we do, and I don't enjoy hearing criticism any more than the next guy, but when it's done with good intentions as a way to make the quality of your work even better, then what's the problem?

  Cedars
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  Gayle

  News now-a-days comes in bits and pieces. Not a good thing some would say. Before Internet we only got headlines or news items of a story in full and all done pretty much.

  Now with Internet, we get stories 'in process.' The story unravels before our patient eyes. If we don't want or accept the story as it unfolds, then we can wait till it is in the "headlines."
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Cedars,

  It’s not heat that gets me hot.

  Bullshitters bullshitting gets me hot.

  Whiners whining gets me hot.

  It is not constructive criticism to tell me what I already know, or to complain about what I am unable to give. Both are whiney bullshit.

  Folks need to learn to use what is handed them and stop whining about what is not handed them. Have you tried that? Has slimboyfat tried that? If you want to be constructive then I highly recommend this as a pragmatic way of moving things forward to a productive end. Readers don’t care about me, and I’m not here to make friends. Readers care about having useful information, even if it is not as useful as they would prefer.

  I don’t care if my responses are what you hoped for. I’m not here for you, or to service your hope. If you don’t like my responses then, for your own health’s sake, stop reading them. I wish you happiness; not grief.

  Any questions?

  Marvin Shilmer

  http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com
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  cedars

  Hi Marvin

  Yes, just one more question...

  Folks need to learn to use what is handed them and stop whining about what is not handed them. Have you tried that? Has slimboyfat tried that?

  If you won't take my advice, then why should I take yours?

  Cedars