QCMBR- Good job in attempting to get your mom to think. It is so difficult to get any mind controlled cult member, Scientologist, Mormon, or JW to think rationally outside the " cult box ". Everything turns into circular reasoning on " just having faith " or " pray more " or " read the Bible more ". They refuse to actually think for themselves . They are trained that way unfortunately. But perhaps your mom will think about some things you said. Thanks for sharing
Had very intense discussion with Mum
by Qcmbr 26 Replies latest social family
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sabastious
Ah, but 5000 years ago we didn't have the scientific method. Now we do. We can start testing away. It's how we learn more about a phenomenon. See the The Science Thread.
You can't test what you don't know. Often philosophy is required to even think up a test. The observation stage can last for centuries.
-Sab
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EntirelyPossible
You can't test what you don't know. Often philosophy is required to even think up a test. The observation stage can last for centuries.
Yes, you can. You start by observation. We have people every day claiming that prayer works. Get 100 of them to start praying. Get another 100 people that want the same thing but don't pray for it. Start taking measurements, correlating prayers with ressults. Form a hypothesis, test it.
It's not that hard.
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sabastious
I am going to change your name, EP, you are now deemed Opposite Boy.
-Sab
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EntirelyPossible
I am going to change your name, EP, you are now deemed Opposite Boy.
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NewChapter
Rubbish, sorry
LOL, well okay then. Uhm, before I simply go with your assessment, would you like to support that statement? I mean, should I believe it because it just feels right, or should I ask for some evidence. What evidence do you have that the study is rubbish? What techniques did they use? How were they flawed? How would you have done a more thorough job of testing the power of prayer? Can you name an area where they were particularly biased? Can you name an are where you are? Have these researchers done something to question their integrity? What reason do you have to completely dismiss their findings? And why should I?
You can't test what you don't know. Often philosophy is required to even think up a test. The observation stage can last for centuries.
There are many things we don't know, but saying something exists is actually saying you know, and therefore we look for evidence of what you actually know, but can't prove. We can say we can't prove the existence of Unicorns---so what we may do is start to test the evidence that unicorns exist. Which is what the researchers did in the article that you have already thrown in the trash. They didn't know---so they tested for evidence of the power of prayer. They found none. Now with that logic, I can tell you absolutely anything exists, and you can't argue with me. See. And if you test for EVIDENCE of my philosophy, I will dismiss your test as rubbish and hang on to whatever belief I have chosen to have, and I will hold you as naive that you don't see it the way I do.
*Sigh* it's so much easier to just believe than to validate. It's incredibly easy to just dismiss evidence without actually breaking it down, looking for flaws and bias, and even more scary, possibly agreeing with the findings.
NC
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Qcmbr
OK - just got back from birthday visit . Nothig mentioned not too awkward so big yay.
Love the pic EP.
Sab - I just chose a random newspaper report and didn't put a vast amount of effort into checking it however, I'd be interested in why you think it was rubbish (it did share some concerns about this type of research and seemed quite a simple example of such studies conclusions.)
You can't test what you don't know.
I find this an interesting quote since I've always assumed you start from a hypothesis to explain observed phonemenom or predicted phenomenon (in the case of some quantum equations for example.) I've never thought you start from a position of knowing and work backwards to explain why you know - that seems to be the religious approach?
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sabastious
LOL, well okay then. Uhm, before I simply go with your assessment, would you like to support that statement? I mean, should I believe it because it just feels right, or should I ask for some evidence. What evidence do you have that the study is rubbish? What techniques did they use? How were they flawed? How would you have done a more thorough job of testing the power of prayer? Can you name an area where they were particularly biased? Can you name an are where you are? Have these researchers done something to question their integrity? What reason do you have to completely dismiss their findings? And why should I?
You shouldn't, but it's still garbage science.
-Sab
