steve2-I'm curious what your feelings are regarding people who feel that their own limbs are strangers or alien to them. Some of these people go to great lengths to have their limbs amputated. This cannot be a healthy mind set. What is the difference between hacking off your legs or your penis or clitoris? People would be horrified to learn someone had a doctor hacked off their working arms or legs, simply because they felt alien to them. An approach healing the mind would be a better option.
Funny Watchtower Article on Homosexuality
by garbonzo 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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garbonzo
@PaintedToeNail An approach to healing the mind would be more beneficial, but if there is none (which is commonly the case) then surgery will be more helpful then doing nothing about it. In the case of body integrity identity disorder, even though doctors won't amputee any limbs because the patient asks, I think if it would lead to suicide like gender identity disorder has, then it would be better to live as an amputee and be happy, then to die because you are unhappy. This is if healing the mind doesn't work.
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mariemcg
I'm my expieriance being a post op TG i wouldn't be here now writing this if i remained as born; granted finding true happiness is hard because i will always be the way i am but by having surgery life is more berable and i can function as a normal human being.. To me this is more important than than being trully unhappy to the point of commiting suicide..
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mariemcg
Also every time that article is shown to me by the elders i just chuck it back in there faces and say. There is no medical evidence that supports thier theory.. Would God prefer someone to be alive or dead?
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PaintedToeNail
mariemcg-thank you. I'm sorry that you felt so unhappy in your body. I'm glad that you are happier now.
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steve2
Paintedtoenail. Great question.What you refer to is also called in some instances self-mutilation or self-amputation - as when someone attempts to cut off their own limb (it's rare but it happens). One of my colleagues once assessed a man who wanted to have his spine surgically cut so that he could be confined to a wheelchair. Quite apart from the ethics of such a procedure, there are a host of other variables that would prevent such a procedure, including he would have now been dependent on the state for support and housing.
Back to your question, though: One of my strating points is this: Is the requested procedure legal? In the above instance it clearly was not - but the assessment still proceeded because the mental-health service he was admitted to was endeavouring to see if there were anything else therapeutic - and legal! - that could help him. A previous poster mentioned the option of "healing" which is a general term I admit but there is a growing clinical literature the testifies to the helpfulness of a range of acceptance-based therapies for people whose life situations cannot be changed. Check out the clinical literature on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) for an ecellent example of a rigorous approach to this very topic.
Ultimately, I do not know what it is like for someone to be totally convinced - and from a very young age and over the ensuing decades - that they are the wrong gender. Since there are evidence-based assessment tools and protocols and the surgical procedures are governed by very clear processes and checks and balances, I have no hesitation in stating that I see nothing wrong with such an arrangement. Of course, when I'm asked about more evidently "fringe" requests (arm amputation) I get a queasy feeling and am heartened that such a procedure is illegal (any registered medical practitioner would face the medical tribunal and deregistration if they engaged in any aspect of such a procedure). Who knows what will happen over time however? Who would have believed even 50 years ago that homosexuality would not only be removed from being a mental-health diagnosis but considered equally as valide as heterosexuality? When we live in societies that strive to repsect and honour human rights it unavoidably entails thorny questions and difficult issues. But I'd rather that than the cut and dried horror of living in an authoritarian - or theocratic - society in which minorities are not only stripped of basic human rights but treated as wll like either criminals or mental-health patients.
I don't claim to have adequately answered your very good question. But appecaite the opportunity to share some of my professional opinions on this topic.
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PaintedToeNail
steve2-Funny you should suggest Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, I bought a book on this very subject about 2 weeks ago and am currently reading it, when I can get it away from hubby, it is fascinating. I have been trying to apply some of the techniques to myself, and it is quite amazing. Some parts remind me of the old time Native American lessons of embracing the icy cold, cold weather, in order to learn to live in the cold. I remember doing this as a kid in Minnesota, rather than shivering to death, welcome the cold, note how the cold feels, and then, it isn't so cold anymore.
This is a far cry from gender identity problems, to be sure. You state that it gives you a queasy feeling over something like an arm amputation, I guess I have the same feeling regarding genitalia, once it is altered and gone, there is no going back, no changing your mind. The permanance of the procedure is scary.
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steve2
The permanance of the procedure is scary.
You're right PTN! That's why in those countries that "allow" it there is a medically and mentally- agreed upon protocol. In New Zealand it's actually quite an arduous process even "merely" being assessed in terms of suitability for the procedure. It certainly excludes mentally unwell individuals and there needs to be incontrovertible evidence that the individual has had gender identity disorder for a significant period of time. Some cases are easier to assess than others, as when individuals are victims of the days when doctors made arbitrary assignments of gender in the case of newborns whose sex was indeterminate (e.g., hermaprodite gential features). (A related issue is if the procedures are banned, there is no doubt that so-called backyard surgery could emerge with its attendant risks).
On the topic of limb amputation, there is widespread consensus among health professionals that there is substantial difference between (say) 1) someone who fundamentally believes - and acts - as if they are the opposite sex to their biologically assigned sex and 2) someone who due to a recognized and classifiable mental disorder, seeks amputation of a limb for assessed psychotic reasons. Irecently heard of a case in which a man wanted his lower left arm amputated because hewas receiving visitations from deceased ancestors who wanted him to pay the price for his great, great grandfather's attacking a farm worker with an axe. The man fervently believed he had to pay the blood price for the sins of a recent ancestor! This scenario is clearly leagues away from gender reassignment surgery!
Glad you've become acquainted with the ACT literature. Yes, it incorporates a lot of "folk" wisdom and provides a lot of practical guidance on the principle of acceptance!
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PaintedToeNail
steve2-I understand the hermaphrodite conundrum, there is a physical problem going on. I have even heard of cases of circumcision gone horribly awry, and the victim being assigned to be a female for life. I'm glad there are strigent protocols involved to help people who truly feel they are the wrong sex, trapped in the wrong body. Still, the permanance! I'm afraid to any kind of aestetic surgeries because of the risk involved, much less having a remodeling of my genitals!
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steve2
I actually share your view, PTN. I could never imagine the surgeon's knife anywhere near me - but we do live in a time when surgical procedures have become kind of common place, specially among people with money to burn (think cosmetic surgery, breast implants, gastric bypasses by those who've given up on diets and so on).