Seeker, stay focused. Your Dr quoted the bible to prove the bible. If the bible wasnt in question we wouldnt be having this dicussion. Please focus.... How did your quote prove anything or offer any evidance about the flood or its height...
Applying Math, Physics, Archeology to THE STORY OF NOAH
by Terry 464 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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ziddina
Here's a website that addresses the question of Dr. Terry Mortenson's "qualifications" as a "scientist" in the field of geology...
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/aig_no_research.htm
From that website - [bold is mine...]:
"Dr Mortenson's statement is, of course, nonsense. Scientists attack YECs by refuting their arguments, particularly those who hold bona fide degrees in science. In an attempt to have their odd ball theories accepted as science they distort what they studied in university or college until it conforms with the myth of Genesis. ..."
And...
"And what about the RATE group Dr Mortenson refers to? The RATE group was formed by what Dr Kevin Henke in his essay Rats in RATE's "Research" refers to as -
" ...a small group of YECs with Ph.D.s [who] have formed the RATE (Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth) [reference omitted] committee to comb the scientific literature and design laboratory 'experiments' that will somehow verify what they have already concluded, namely that Genesis is 'The Truth' and geochronology is 'wrong'".
Dr Henke rightly takes the group to task for having -
"a doctrinal monitor to look over their shoulders to make sure that their 'science' does not conflict with the official party line."
He has some harsh words to say to those who prostitute their knowledge in blind obedience to scripture:
"Any scientist that is willing to sign away his/her integrity and freedom to explore nature for the sake of a political and/or religious cause does not deserve to be called a scientist. These oath-takers are promising not to accept any results or perform any research that challenges the credibility of the official political and/or religious dogma." ..."
And...
"The "evolutionist", in this instance Frank Lovell, had this to say regarding Dr Mortenson's claim:
"AiG's 'spin' in reporting my 'admission' is a tad over exuberant (imagine that!); it is true that the level of scientific 'excellence' I observed in some of the presentations exceeds any I had observed at prior ICCs, but there are still MILES (light-years) to go before the scientific excellence of 'scientific' creationism approaches the scientific excellence underwriting the case for old earth evolution!" ..."
And...
"A prominent Australian geologist has this to say about Dr Mortenson's claim:
"As for creationists obtaining their higher degrees supervised by evolutionists, so what. I encourage my students to disagree with me, to criticise my published work and to be of independent mind. What Mortensen is saying is that under a creationist education system, there would be a party line to which all must adhere. March on the anti-intellectual fraudulent theocracy!" ..."
And...
"However, in light of his insistence that YECs are real scientists (despite being hobbled by the necessity to abide by the "truths of Genesis") a brief word about Dr Mortenson's scientific qualifications is in order. According to his curriculum vitae Dr Mortenson has obtained a B.A. in math, University of Minnesota, USA, an M.Div. in systematic theology, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Illinois, USA and a Ph.D in history of geology, Coventry University, England.
His qualifications in math and the history of geology are genuine, but, according to my sources, he's unknown in the world of geology and his history of geology would seem not to be relevant in the context of mainstream geology - or for that matter, history - for a number of reasons. Neither of his qualifications necessarily equates to scientific knowledge and having a Ph.D in history of science should certainly not be construed as being cogent of modern scientific practice or theories...."
And...
"Within his chosen field he seems not to have published in any of the acknowledged historical journals (e.g. Isis, British Journal for the History of Science or Earth Sciences History), although nine papers have appeared in AiG's Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal. Scientists with a knowledge of current historical scholarship and methodology who have perused these papers find them to be strongly coloured by Dr Mortenson's beliefs. In addition. he is not a member of the History of Science Society (the acknowledged peer society in the USA) and doesn't seem to be attempting to carry out any historical research as judged by mainstream historians. ..."
And...
"Furthermore, just because someone has the meal ticket to start a career in science (i.e. a Ph.D) it doesn't necessarily mean that they are a scient ist. Holding a Ph.D doesn't mean that a person has any eminence, it means they've jumped the first hurdle in a scientific career which, after a long period of time, may lead to some eminence if they stayed at the leading edge. This requires rigour, self- and peer-criticism and a re-evaluation of ideas upon the validation of new data. Requirements that YECs, because of the prerequisites of scripture, can never fulfil. ..."
A resounding indictment of Dr. Mortenson's so-called "scientific" career, I must say...
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breakfast of champions
Quick answer to what happened in 2370 BCE -- NOTHING!
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thetrueone
One fact that we can hold to as that ancient mythological stories were told to bring vital important relevance toward specifically
worshiped gods from various ancient cultures. Some of these ancient stories are historically observed written in the bible.
The underlining probable reason WHY these stories were told has to be honesty recognized and accepted, which also
goes along in accepting mankind's history of ignorance of the world (same) we live in today.
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poopsiecakes
Ok I promised I wouldn't laugh at truthseeker because I think he's really sincere and I kinda like him.
But this comment...
It is apparent that nothing could convince you of something you have made your mind up about, that is why you tear holes in things you know little about.
sorry but the irony is just too delicious
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elderelite
Lol i hear u poopsie..... But im really trying to take the discussion seriously and give him the benefit of the doubt
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poopsiecakes
::giggle::
I can only speak for myself here, but my mind used to be pretty made up about the flood. It was a real event and God did it cuz those nasty angels came down from heaven and played hide the weenie with earth chicks.
sorry...I have to put the quote in again.
It is apparent that nothing could convince you of something you have made your mind up about, that is why you tear holes in things you know little about.
sorry...
Then ummmm I read a bit outside of WT literature and ummm started using logic in my ummmm brain and the story I was convinced about fell apart pretty quickly.
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truthseeker
Round 4....
Cofty, I see what you're saying about Dr. Mortenson. I agree that there is bias there but having said that, I don't think it's impossible to be a scientist and a Christian. I see no problem with using science to prove the Bible, unfortunately, this does not go down well in the academic world.
Although his education is quite diverse, I would not say he knows nothing about geology, to get a Phd would require a peer reviewed dissertation. It's no cakewalk.
I used his example of the depth of the flood waters because he said it better than I could and thetrueone wanted to know how high the flood waters were. All I did was look on the net, no harm in that.
I think the scriptures are saying that the height of the water was 15 cubits above the highest mountain, that's why when the waters went down, the ark rested on a mountain.
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truthseeker
Poopsie,
No offense taken, I can laugh at myself :)
BTW Elderlite, I am also taking the discussion seriously, I'm not a troll
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elderelite
I understand seeker.... So let try again:
He quoted the bible to prove the bible. Do you think thats logical?
