by N.drew 69 Replies latest watchtower bible
Egypt is known for the pyramids and cats - which clearly indicates that Egypt signifies the pointy shape of your head and the revelations you recieve when your many cats speak bible verse to you, N.drew.
6of9 illustrates again his desperate need of a sensitivity tune-up. Pay no attention to him, Ms. Drew.
That makes you a goat!
---snip---
You've given a circular restatement of your starting premises, but you haven't defended those premises.
If an apocalyptic work like Revelation should not be read as we would read other apocalyptic works from the same time period then why?
If Revelation was not relevant first and foremost to those who would have read and preserved at the time it was written, then why?
If Revelation is somehow relevant to the state of the world in the year 2012, then why?
The King of the North and King of the South makes funny images come to mind. Something along the lines of Black Adder.
The King of the North (England) and the King of the South (France, Germany)-- I see some WWII soldiers from each side calling each other on the period phones. Are North and South taken literally? I wonder what latitude Viet Nam was? What happens when one of the kingdoms (Soviet Union) collapses from internal contradictions so there is no opposing power. When I read history, there is rarely outright war. Some diplomatic measures continue behind the scenes. I recall the red phones to link DC and Moscow in a nuclear emergency.
During the American REvolution, many years into the war there was still quaisofficial correspondence to settle the war with increased rights for the Americans. Members of Congress conducted this correspondence.
North and South seem to be used as polar opposites and could mean anything under the sun.
I once walked into a lecture that Mary Travers of Peter, Paul, and Mary was giving at Barnard College. One of the students wanted to earn a living as a folk song writer and asked for tips. Mary was impressed by the question. She said to always write in imagery that is adaptable. Make the audience decide what it means. Most of the antiwar songs of the 60s fit this mold. Plus, your song will still be published when the conflict ends. She sang Salvador that day. Who cares about El Salvador today?
Think of Imagine, Give Peace a Chance, Where Have All the Flowers Gone, Blowin' in the Wind (if Dylan sang about specific civil rights legislation pending before Congress no one would care).
If an apocalyptic work like Revelation should not be read as we would read other apocalyptic works from the same time period then why?
If Revelation was not relevant first and foremost to those who would have read and preserved at the time it was written, then why?
If Revelation is somehow relevant to the state of the world in the year 2012, then why?
DAH
Your talking about the whole then not. So how can anyone answer that?
Simple answer. People are selfish.
I raise you dissonance
Somewhat off the thread, but this is the King of the North and South in context. My method is to merge prophecy with historical reality. When these meet, one’s interpretation can start:
According to Daniel’s worldview, the inhabited earth could be passed off as a stage, the spotlight or focus falling on his homeland, Israel. In his introduction to Daniel 11 we are introduced to two unusual players, the King of the North and the King of the South (Dan. 11:3, 4). The disintegration of the Alexandrian Empire would give birth to these two entities (Dan. 8:8). According to Dan. 11 the identity of these kings would be subject to change. An identifying mark of the King of the North would be his fanatical opposition to the King of the South.
Both kings would be intimately involved with Daniel’s people, Israel. The territory of Israel, called “the beautiful land” (= “the land of the Decoration”), was strategically important because of it serving as a land bridge between Asia and Egypt. The prophetic names of these kings would stem from their territory’s spatial relationship to Israel. E.g., the Seleucids would be based in Syria, to the north of “the beautiful land” = King of the North. The Ptolemies would be based in Egypt, to the south of “the beautiful land” = King of the South.
Your talking about the whole then not. So how can anyone answer that?
Not at all. I've pointed out that there is no whole.
Simple answer. People are selfish.
People reject the idea that the writer of Revelation was speaking over the heads of those who would actually have read and understood what he wrote because they're selfish goats?
I would submit that people today who believe that they are the actual target audience are the ones who are selfish. At any rate, there is an entire branch of Christian thought called Preterism, that believes your approach is utter hogwash
"What may not Scriptures mean? The grammatical sense of words no longer suffices for interpretation; Scripture is a conundrum to be guessed - an oracle that utters ambiguous responses; and no man can be sure, without a special revelation, that he understands what he reads."
So I would question the reflexive judgement here.
Do you realize that present day Israel is about the size of NJ? I don't see how the God of the Universe would focus everything on a NJ type state. Why do only Israelites have prophecy? Then, they stop abruptly b/c Christianity must dominate. Well, I am certain every nation on earth believes its personal God is ruler of the universe. The only evidence we have that God favored Israel is statements by Israelites. I consider than worse than citing wikipedia.
I wonder what Judaism would be like today if Christianity did not use its writings to bolster Christianity. I see nothing holier in Judaism or Christianity compared to other religions. The other religions have miracles, interesting stories, great literature, and prophecies.
There are two ways that I see of viewing scripure: literally but thru one's own personal filter. The Holy Spirit, My Lord spoke to me (and not to inferior you) and a wider, world view that recognizes historical data. Perhaps there is a universal element in the story that has relevance in your own life.
One view is certain. The other is educated surmise.
I don't see a way for other side to communicate with the other. I don't need Kings of the North and South in my life. Nor the four horsemen, the throne, the great beast, Bablylon the Great. These were childish beliefs. Perhaps b/c of where I lived, I had many friends of different religions. They were not evil. Any God would respect them.
Not at all. I've pointed out that there is no whole.
How can there be no everything?
Total destruction of man and Earth will only look like there was no everything.
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8
I know Babylon means the impossibility of understanding one another. Sodom probably means I shall do as I please. What does Egypt mean?
Try Barnes' Notes on the NT.
And Egypt. That is, it would have such a character that the name Egypt might be properly given to it. Egypt is known, in the Scriptures, as the land of oppression--the land where the Israelites, the people of God, were held in cruel bondage. Compare Exodus 1-15. See also Ezekiel 23:8. The particular idea, then, which seems to be conveyed here is, that the "city" referred to would be characterized by acts of oppression and wrong towards the people of God. ...
