Does anyone here believe the bible is inspired of God? Surely Chritians must, because without the New testament they have nothing on which to base their faith.
I don't believe the Bible is Inspired of god - Why do you / don't you?
by cantleave 202 Replies latest watchtower bible
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designs
I dated a she-bear Witness from LA and lived to tell about it!
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sabastious
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[1] 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said[2], “Let there be light[3],” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.[4]
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.[5]
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.[6]
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.[7]14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.[8]
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. [9]
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.[10]28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” [11]
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.[12]1. The first verse of the Bible actually is just a paraphrase of the entire document of chapter 1. The rest is a human attempt at elaboration.
2. It's assumed that God is not actually using spoken language here because there is nothing to speak to. Therefore the concept of "speach" is actually just a literary device for describing the creative process of God. The writer would have no way of conceptualizing the means of which God created our existence therefore has to crudely depict the process through the spoken language of his time.
3. At this point we are forced to put our scientific instruments down and put our philosopher caps on. This is written by a human after all before the creation of the scientific method. It's important to put one's self within the writer's shoes so-to-speak to get the sense of what's being written. Once the original purpose is discerned then the instruments can be pulled back out. "Let there be light." What was the writers idea of light? It would likely not go beyond the sun, the moon, the stars, fire and lightening. So the writer could be trying to depict the creation of the process that generates light or electromagnetic radiation. "Let there be electromagnetic radiation" might be able to be switched in, imo.
4. The ancient context makes the days and seasons much more pivotal in the writers life and subsequent tone. I would guess that days and nights held deeper meaning to the people of the writers time. A "first day" and a "first night" are really just literary philosophical devices. For simplication they can be said to represent the inherent separation between the world of light and the world of darkness.
5. The sky, as science tells, it now is much different than what the writer knew it to be. The sky was much more mystical to them than it is to us. They knew it had a deep purpose within the cycle of life, but the details seemed to forever evade them. The story is attempting to describe the atmosphere which includes the water cycle, the ozone etc. At the end of verse six there is mention of time passing in a measurable way. This is a theme throughout the piece and seems to hold a special importance.
6. The earth started out as molten land and then was given water by an asteroid. The writer seems to have it backwards. Yet the message remains the same in both versions and that's that there is a separation between land and water that took place in the beginning. The earth didn't start out with inhabitable continents separated by seas. There was a process to that. The mistake of the writer is along the same lines of thinking the earth was the center of the universe or that it was flat. All justifyable mistakes because of lacking knowledge.
7. I believe the story has the floura forming on the earth very similar to the way scientists have found it to be so. Before there was complex life there were less complex life. Small fauna and all types of flora came before anything really large and complex.
8. As we read in many ancient writings they has always been a very wrong view of how the sun and the stars actually work. I think this is par for the course. Although there is wordage in the story's explanation of the sun and moon worth giving a second or third look.
9. The writer now describes more complex life in all the life habitats: land, sea and air. So far Genesis 1, in my opinion, follows the evolutionary story incredibly well for being writting many thousands of years ago.
10. Remember who's point of view the story is being presented by: YHWH the creator of the universe and his celestial creations. This story is an ancient human trying to describe the actions of the creators of the universe. So when we get to the evolution of man we are described the god's making us in "their image" so that they can rule over the animals like they rule over the universe. This is because the writer and his culture see a big difference between themselves and the animals. They also knew that they could survive off of the meat of the animals. They probably had debates about admitting their own behaviour in relation to their animal neighbors. Some were probably of herbivore decent and others carnivore decent. We still have this debate today with hunters and vegans.
11. The humans had had much time to test their hypothesis that the world was in subjection to them. It would not be illogical to assume this as generations pass by while you subdue your environment. Therefore when the writer describes the purpose of mankind it involves further subduing the planet which requires procreation. It's a rather eloquently simply answer to the meaning to life, imo.
12. The story concludes with imagry of humans frollocking about and subduing the earth and YHWH ever so pleased with the work. In essence that's exactly what still happening today. There is no reason to believe that YHWH hasn't been pleased with what has transpired. Maybe not in whole, but there has been a lot of frollocking, but a lot of ignorance and sorrow too. The NIV dubs this block "The Beginning" of which I disagree with. I would call it the Bible's version of the "The Ascent of Man." That said the next few chapters in genesis could be decribed as the "Descent of Man" which I believe is still going on today.
-Sab
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cantleave
So Sab you agree, written by men not inspired by God?
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Ucantnome
I don't believe the Bible is Inspired of God-Why do you?
It gives me hope. I've not seen a better deal being offered to me.
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cofty
Ucantnome - I respect your honesty. I don't mean to be disrespectful but would you agree that providing hope is not evidence of veracity?
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diamondiiz
Bible the creation by higher class of men to control lower class. Lower class was more ignorant and so many of us were when we believed in this BS while dubs. Once we look outside of religious nonsense we see it for what it really is and we either close our eyes to the reality that the bible is just another book written by men. Or we can delude ourselves into imagining it's God's word because we can't fathom the idea that there is no God and we'll cease to exist once we die. And then there are those hearing Jesus talking to them.....
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sabastious
So Sab you agree, written by men not inspired by God?
I believe that 1 Tim 3:16 describes the process of which it was written by God.
2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
^ I started a thread that elaborates my current belief.
-Sab
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Ucantnome
Veracity, Adherence to the truth; truthfulness
I had to look it up. Shows the sort of intelligence I have.
Are you asking me to prove beyond doubt that the Bible is inspired or whether I believe it too be?
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cedars
I can handle most parts of the bible, but I just can't stomach the senseless slaughter of innocent children in the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures). I always had a problem with this for as long as I can remember. Genocide churns the stomach whether it is divinely sponsored or not.
I also struggle with Paul's homophobia and mysogynistic remarks. It's a shame that Jesus isn't recorded as speaking out on his viewpoint of homosexuality to set the record straight. The fact that he used women as his messengers following his resurrection itself indicates to me that he had an altogether more healthy attitude towards women than Paul did.
I'm not sure exactly where I am on the bible at this stage in my life. For years, I've believed that "all scripture is inspired" just because Paul said so. Paul's "take my word for it, honest" approach no longer seems sufficient - particularly when you consider that the bible canon as we know it today was decided on centuries later by men the Society themselves claim had apostasized from the true faith.
That said, I'm not prepared to dismiss the possibility that many of the events described in the bible may have happened. I just personally find it difficult to hold the bible with the same reverence that I once did.
Cedars