getting back to the sex subject...(serious)

cptkirk

ok so the JW's rail against the UN for decades as the beast...then they swear to uphold the charter of the UN...this doesn't matter though. I want to point something else out that is fairly black and white in regards to sex...and the larger implications this has for the ENTIRE religion and the religion's future.

i don't want to debate sexual positions, i could care less...what i'm about to say has to do with the culture and truth of this religion, not with the sex. and where this religion will be in 30 years, if it still exists at all by then.

this is not 100% but i know it's damn close , 95+% there is apparently a gap in "truth" yet again (reason i cited UN), that is becoming brighter and brighter as the day draws near (/sarcasm off)

95%+ of elders are going to tell you one thing about sex...but that has not apparently reached the ears of all those 30 and under...and my guess is, even those 30 and under, even if they are pioneers, they will tell their studies something different in contrast to what the elders will say. this has a very interesting implication, because if this is true on one thing, it will probably be true on other things (at least in the coming years)

as we all know sex is something very bad and disgusting, it is the disgusting thing that brings desolation ...well actually it's ok if you do it under the covers with the lights off, also you must wear pajamas and cut out holes in the crotch area...then it is clean and you will no longer beckon the mighty wrath of the pestilence bringers and smiters.

that is pretty much what the elders believe (even if they are doing something different in their bedrooms, they are begging god for forgiveness)...i'm trying to picture all the naked husbands and wives on the floor together praying after they enjoyed sex too much.

what is the point of all of this? it's not sex. the point is, the younger people (even the zealous younger people do not believe, nor teach each other this perspective, nor would i even venture to say, they probably don't teach it to students either)

so a rift is growing.....for every young person that tells you they are having wild sex, ask them what the elders think of it....they are either not real witnesses and just don't know it (will be a big shock to find out all their work is worthless because they are kinky) then what? pray to god to take away your sex drive? slippery slope, but that is all beside the point.

bottom line, the rift is there. get an elder 1on1 and discreetly ask him about positions (forget about anal, you are going to gehenna if you even entertain that thought)...just positions...if he is a good elder, he will tell you that is porneia. again, the rift is there, ask the young people...who is right? why does a rift exist in the truth? it's the truth right? the word of the GB is absolute PERIOD.

Sulla

Wow. That was really... not my experience in the JWs.

OnTheWayOut

I think you exaggerate to make your point. I think you exaggerate a bit too much. Are the elder elders (older ones) getting down and dirty? NO. They probably aren't doing it in a hammock on the beach and are not getting or giving any oral sex. But how many older ladies are giving oral sex? How many older men? How many people besides young lovers are doing it in a hammock on the beach? Even if not JW's, that kind of stuff tapers off, the only difference with older JW's is that it was always ZERO.

Otherwise, they might have done it in the shower or bent over a footstool. They get nekked. They are not sorry they enjoyed it too much.

But the oral sex part could be a problem. Also, the marital sex only rule is a big killer. Young people try alcohol and experiment with sex. The ones who try to stay on the puritan path of JW's get married at 17 or so because they gotta have it. The majority that don't stay on that path just learn to keep their mouths shut.

I imagine that young married couples are keeping their mouths shut too. They are learning some stuff and ignoring WTS in the bedroom. But most JW's ignore some of the rules in many different ways.

NewChapter

I don't like when positions are brought into the discussion. I don't know what goes on informally, but I've never read anything that condoned or condemned positions. Older generations will always be more conservative when it comes to this, but if there is something in writing, please show me.

On the other hand, I remember a talk in the mid 2000's that discussed oral sex in marriage. I had never heard it discussed IN MARRIAGE before, and an elder told my husband some years before that it was a conscience matter. Anyway, I told this to a friend, who asked an elder about it. He pointed her to a 1983 WT, which was the last place it was mentioned. I told her it was ridiculous---how much growth had there been in those years? And coming from a "world" that didn't see anything wrong with it. Maybe in the 1960's it would have been a more commonly held view, but recruiting people in the 90's and 2000's meant that many coming in didn't see a problem. And the last mention was decades before. So what gives?

The REAL problem is the younger ones just won't be aware of the "rules".

NC

OnTheWayOut

So this middle-aged woman who had never been married before managed to snag her a widower. When the honemoon was over, she made him a meal at home and he sat at the table after he was done. He stated, "Just to be clear, now that we are married and the honeymoon is over, washing the dishes after dinner is something I never intend to do ever again. It's why I got married."

She said absolutely nothing and washed the dishes.

That night in bed, he started caressing his wife and she enjoyed it, so one thing started leading to another. He did as he had done on their honeymoon- he pushed her down to indicate what he wanted. She resisted and stated, "Just to be clear, now that we are married and the honeymoon is over, there is a reason I got married too."

cptkirk

i look at it like this, the people i know, and the people i've talked to on this....are from metropolis areas... even if it's only 50% of them in metropolis areas, how many more is it in hicksville? since i obviously didn't ask every single elder, but it's just like polling data, the polls don't either. they profile people, ask chunks of people from different profiles, then use their little math constructs to make predictions. the people i was asking were not the oldest most conservative elders i could find...they were middle of the road, and they always had the same generic answer about porniea.

cptkirk

this is my opinion and i might be wrong...but this is what i picture in my head:

governing body members holding these *extreme* views on sex , and wanting to print it right in the WT for everyone to see, but having misgivings for a number of reasons, and just not doing it. in the meantime many in the WT not holding these views, with the exception of many elders and some others....and popular belief trumping the GB...with the GB continuing their teeth gnashing, knowing so many witnesses are bangin like "animals" and having oral sex within the "marriage arangement".

Broken Promises

steve2

So, what on earth are younger JWs opening up to you about their sex lives for you to make such sweeping generalizations about their attitudes? This sounds dubious.

DesirousOfChange

what is the point of all of this? it's not sex. the point is, the younger people (even the zealous younger people do not believe, nor teach each other this perspective, nor would i even venture to say, they probably don't teach it to studies

What I like most about this post is it would indicate that my wife and I qualify as the "younger people" and that hasn't been said in a long long time!

I don't know any of the Elders/MS in my age group who had such puritanical views about sex. Oral sex was "don't ask don't tell" unless while having a few pints together you can't keep quiet about how good it was last night (there was always at least one braggart in the group)!

Cptn, your description of things is foreign to me.

Respecfully, DOC

getting back to the sex subject...(serious)

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