Why Did Ray Franz Still Go On Field Service? (page 3)

BroMac

bubblegum- i would say the first would have been that Christ is the Mediator for all Christians.

In Search of Christian Freedom was even more of an eye opener for me than was Crisis of Conscience. Up to that point, I believed the early Christian went from door-to-door. However, this is not the case at all. Door-to-door is a counterproductive way of spreading any message, it only annoys people. It is sadistic to force people to go door-to-door, telling them that if they don't, God is going to kill them.

After his ouster from the GB, but before they found a way to throw him into the lion's pit, if Brother Franz went door-to-door, it was most likely a way to preserve his fellowship with his congregation and help his brothers.

Someone said, 'if he had been treated better he would never have awakened'. Heck--if I hadn't been disfellowshipped, I wouldn't have awakened. I would have been a mind-controlled robot wondering why God's organization wasn't adhering to the lessons of Jesus more closely. I think many here probably can attest to this.

Like Brother Franz, I love the Witnesses as a people. I feel like the Apostle Paul did in regard of having "great grief and unceasing pain in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were separated as the cursed one from the Christ in behalf of my brothers". And again, " the goodwill of my heart and my supplication to God for them are, indeed, for their salvation. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God…" I still view them as "my people", even though I do no longer believe the Society's doctrines. I know how they could be, if they were allowed to flourish.

james_woods

I can speak a little about Ed Dunlap:

I think the mediator/new covenant/two classes was a primary issue with Ed. He had ceased to believe in annointed/other sheep by the time he left Bethel. (remember - Ed never claimed to be of the annointed) Ed realized early on that the eternal paradise earth was a myth - he felt that all christians were one and the same and should have the heavenly hope.

A secondary (and important) issue with him was all the nutcase chronology. While researching the Aid to Bible Understanding book, it became obvious to Ed and several others that there was a real problem with the 607BC date and that thus the whole 1914,etc. stuff was phony. This was also right in the era of the 1975 embarrassment. He was contemptuous of the "primary and secondary prophecy fulfillments" that Freddy Franz loved so much - especially stuff like the seven trumpet blasts and so on.

A third very important issue was that Ed came to a very early realization that the "faithful and discreet slave" idea was just plain wrong. I think that Ed realized this even before Ray Franz.

Ed also had come to the belief that Jesus should be viewed as a divine being before he died. Not quite fully trinitarian, but definately affirmative to the divinity of Christ.

BluesBrother

I cannot speak for Ray Franz , for whom I have the utmost respect. For me though the penney dropped very quickly once the realization had been made but it still took a little while (months) to get to grips with the new way of thinking. I still went in F.S although not with much zeal.

Partly this was due to pressures and appearences but it does take time to reconcile with the realization that everything you have always believed is totally wrong - that all the men that you have served with, and some have been greatly respected, have been totally wrong.

It is like a large ocean going ship. The helmsman may see that he is on the wrong course but it takes some time to stop it

Broken Promises

I think some people have a tendency to put Ray Franz up on a pedalstal as if he was the perfect exJW.

He was just a normal guy who happened to find himself in a unique situation. He left and decided to write a book about it, chronicling his exit. But he wasn't perfect. So his exit isn't necessarily as perfect as we might think it should have been.

Was our own exit perfect? Or did we occasionally make mistakes? Aren't there times we think, why didn't I see that sooner? Why did we say such and such? All of it is part of our growth as we leave the JW world.

So was the same as with Ray Franz' exit from JWism.

After all, hindsight is always 20/20.

red21

Recently, a long time bethel member visiting was told of somethings I said regarding Ray Franz. It was interesting that nothing they said refuted what was said but rather they perferred to call him and his wfie arrogant people. So, instead of reason or logic, they reverted to name calling. From what I have heard, a fair number of the higher-ups at bethel have been considered very arrogant people. Rutherford, Knorr, and others have ruled with an iron fist and had no personality from what I have read. Does anyone know Franz personally? I find it hard to believe by the way his books were written?

exwhyzee

Does anyone know Franz personally? I find it hard to believe by the way his books were written?

He was my Entrants School conductor for many months in Bethel shortly before it all hit the fan. And I shared weekly meals with he and his wife every few months. I could tell back then that something was bothering him, it was as if he beleived what he was doing yet something he couldn't quite put his finger on yet, was wrong. When I read his book I could hear his kindly and wise voice. I beleive every word he said. He put into words what I couldn't formulate.It all suddenly made sense to me and I knew from being a long time Witness and having been at Bethel he was absolutely telling the truth about what went on. The tone or voice you hear in the book is just how he was. Gentle kind and honest. Even when he was speaking against the WT he did it as kindly as he could and yet get his side of the story told. You'd have to have spent time in Bethel to really know how it was and know he was absolutely correct in his assertions.

RayPublisher

Wow this thread is really affecting me. I was at Bethel in the late 80s early 90s and people there were still talking about Ray, in whispered tones and conversations. Deep down many knew that he was not "the boogie man" he was made out to be.

Then when speaking to some brothers that knew him and worked with him more things gelled with me, and now we all know a lot of the story. Not all of it, but much of it. Three brothers worked on the Aid book, and that was the beginning- all three left the WT org one way or the other. Ray was slow to come around but he eventually was convinced by the other two that this was NOT "the truth" and there was systemic flaws in the Org that "could not be made straight."

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Based on what Ray said in his books, he never really wanted to be on the GB or Bethel in the first place. By his own account, Knorr was taken aback when Ray didn't seem too enthused with his new assignment, and preferred to just go back to Puerto Rico. By 1980, he made the personal decision to quietly leave the GB, but he clearly didn't want to sever all ties to what was up to then his entire life. When he went to Alabama, he knew the GB's eyes would be watching him closely, and probably kept up the field service part of it in the hope that this would blow over and he'd then fade into obscurity.

Why Did Ray Franz Still Go On Field Service?