Wasn't Armageddon Supposed to Happen in the First Century?

by losthobbit 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Band on the Run

  Can you imagine how first century Christians felt when Peter, Paul,James, Thomas, Matthew -the whole bunch - started to die. Nicodemus, Mary the Mother, Mary Magdalene? It must have been such a blow to expectations. The Bible does not focus on this. If there were no problem to the church, John of Patmos would never have written Revelation to give hope. Christian hope is depressing when viewed in this light. I wonder why Christians stayed in the church. Just as with 1975, I expect many Christians decided to go back to their native religion.

  The Bible is written from the victor's point of view. Maybe archaeologists will find a manuscript written by those upset Christians. The expectation of immediacy must have presented a very different church from a church not knowing when Christ will come.
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  N.drew

  "This generation" does not mean in a period of time imho, it means the generation that in truth belong to Christ as in Matthew 28:20 " teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

  So as long as there are sons of men who are taken "out" of the "world" to do the will of God, God will not abandon His will. That is what I think it means.
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  Band on the Run

  N. Drew,

  What you state is a nice explanation for believers today. The problem is that there is ample evidence that first century Christians, included Paul who is so often quoted, and John of Patmos expected the Second Coming before they died. I don't think they expected it only within their lifetime but in a matter of weeks or months. They had no 2,000 years of expecting yet. The long wait seems such a waste of time. Jesus had his ministry, his death, and his resurrection. He was ruling in heaven. Why not immediately?

  It is interesting that the gospels have Jesus say that no one knows the hour. It is a clear, express statement. I wonder why convulted chronologies are needed when Jesus said no man.
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  N.drew

  Hi Band thank you. What you say is reasonable. But it is not how I understand it. I do not believe in a "second coming". Not a world wide historical one. The "coming" that I understand means "to each believer". It is happening all the time. Or let's hope so!
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  Band on the Run

  I understand what you are saying. It is a nice way to dealing with Jesus' lack of physical presence. Christians constantly revise their core beliefs. I expect every religion does the same. Jews evolved from a belief in Temple worship.
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  N.drew

  Artificial Christianity revises core beliefs. True Christianity remains the same.

  Ephesians 4:4 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
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  cofty

  The gospel writers were in no doubt the parousia would happen within their lifetime.

  You can see Paul having to deal with the unexpected situation of believers dying before the end in 1Cor and Peter's lame apologetics "in the last days there will be scoffers" etc

  You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - Matt 10:22,23

  If Jesus said the things the gospel writers claim he said then yes Jesus was a false prophet (as if there was any other kind)
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  Fernando

  Hey losthobbit!

  I wonder if the link created by Watchtower and other religionists between the scriptures you cited and "Armaggedon" is tenuous at best?

  Although Revelation seems largely figurative/spiritual I am wondering what to make of "Armaggedon" being described as a "place" rather than an event?

  Could one link v15 to v16 so that those who have remained awake are gathered to this place? That would make it a good place and event?

  NWT suggests "river" as an alternative rendering for "place" which might make it life giving?

  Reading the Bible commentaries on Rev 16:16 at www.bible.cc hasn't helped me at this point.
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  ziddina

  "Wasn't Armageddon Supposed to Happen in the First Century?..."

  Yes it was....

  I thought that it DID, when Rome invaded Judea to put down rebellions and destroyed Jerusalem and most other major Hebrew cities...

  Zid
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  ziddina

  One thing to keep in mind, is that the book of Revelation was actually written AFTER the destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum, by Mt. Vesuvius in 79 C.E. ....

  I haven't gotten around to reading my copy of "Pliny the Younger, Complete Letters", and breaking down the relationship between that eruption and Revelation yet, but it is obvious that there's a LOT of volcanic imagery written into the book of Revelation...

  For those who might say that the eruption of Vesuvius didn't affect the Jews, let me remind you that Pliny the Younger was an eyewitness to the eruption, wrote at least one clear, solid account of the eruption, which MUST have made the rounds as an account of amazing events, to say the least.

  His account was probably carried, if not by letters, at least by word-of-mouth, to all parts of the Roman Empire, INCLUDING Judea...

  And there were other survivors of the volcanic holocaust, who undoubtedly added THEIR voices to the furor over that destruction.

  That destruction was ALSO probably viewed as "divine judgement", and an indication that the "day of the wrath of god" was very near...

  Zid