by TimothyT 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Bioflex... Memorial talks usually omit verse 26 (1 cor 11:26) or avoid commenting on it, particularly the part about Jesus' "RETURN"...
They don't want to draw questions from visitors that they are unable to answer scriptually, such as "Wait... didn't he return in 1914?"
GromitSK, no. The practice has been, until recently, that the priest or deacon would consume the "wine," rather than distribute it. I think the Orthodox do this, as well. But this is because Jesus is equally present in either bread or wine. So, not really similar.
As for the JW practice: it seems quite unlikely that anybody ever intended the second class Christians were supposed to observe the first class Christians take communion. The entire concept is pretty much the opposite of the Christian message and it is not particularly easy to create a practice that so perfectly captures the negation of Christianity and then pass it off as orthodox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist
.... even the Witnesses get a paragraph...
Thanks for your comments everyone. Just looking at that last post i checked on wikipedia. I wonder who wrote this:
All present view this as an opportunity to show that they accept the belief that Jesus Christ is the one who sacrificed himself in behalf of redemption for all mankind, becoming the only mediator between Jehovah God and mankind (John 3:16). At the same time, it is an opportunity to publicly show thanks for that worldwide redemption.
Apart from the bit about him being the only mediator which i think is quite an odd thing to say as they believe that the faithful slave is in between Jesus and them, I just wonder why they feel that they only have to show their thanks once a year. Surely they can show this thanks every day. As some have pointed out, communion in churches is done usualy every week. Does it matter how its done? Does it even matter IF its done? Surely the symbols and emblems themselves are not important, but its the faith in them which is?
In any event, i dont see why i need to go to show my thanks to Jesus. :)
Tim,
A hearagelt thank you but my schedule is full. It was so Christian of you to ask. No one else asked. is sufficient.
"Memorial is THE day for Witnesses. It sounds as though you are confused. All Jesus needs for you to show appreciation is to p rayerfully say, "Thank you, Jesus. I appreciate your presence. Please draw closer to me>" This can be said anytime, anyplace, even in a restroom. Jesus had great sensitivity. It must pain him greatly to see the uber ugly KHs. He preached through the countryside, where he was accessible to all. When th eend was near, he entered the NYC of his day. The Memorial does NOT honor Jesus. It honors the WTBTS, which is not Christian, but Jehovist.
The overwhelming of Christians throughout the entire globe teach that Jesus is God, Light from Light. Search your Bible for a reference to Jesus is Michael. Altho the Bible authors used different gentres, they were more than capable of writing express simple statements. Paul's oratory amazes me. The LOve is passage. The principalities passage. This man, and the others, could clearly state Jesus is Michael. Jesus is not adopted. He is a spiprit. This is manifestly NOT Christianity. I know Arianism florurished throughout Europe for a certain period of time. Arianism never taught the Witness version.
If I recall, you are gay. Why not pride yourself on the Stonewall riots and the Christpher St./Castro scene. You are gay. Therefore, you will never be accepted. You can be president of the WT but you are doomed. Why not embrace your doom with dignity and say, Yes, I am gay. This was my birthright, not an evil choice. Stand up for yourself as fully yourself. Your presence signifies defeat. Acknowledgement that being gay is despicable. Be proud. IMO.
You are not the first gay man on earth. Thousands upon thousands were wiped out with AIDS. Harvey Milk was assasinated. Matthew whats his name was brutally assaulted, murdered and tied to a fence. The Gestapo is out. Why cooperate with the Gestapo.
@ Sulla - thanks :)
If you go, you will be wasting your time plus give Brother Hounder another opportunity to pry into your private life.
If you are going to reject Jesus, do it at home by not participating in any religious activities at all. If you wish to accept Jesus, and you believe in the church, you are better off doing it in small groups. Taking communion is better than the REJECT Jesus Parties. You might also wish to get some simple red wine and unleavened bread (which is actually fairly simple to bake at home). You assemble in small groups--2 or 3 families is suggested, to keep the group at around 12 so everyone can observe your partaking. That is the way the Bible indicates it was done in Jesus' day.
Either way, you will not be subject to the rules that the Washtowel puts out. The talk is boring--just about anyone can read directly from the Bible as part of the communion. I suggest reading the accounts themselves, and digging up as many of the gnostic gospels as you can find that also deal with the event and reading those at your communion. From there, prayer is optional--then partake. Or, you can simply ignore the whole thing and do as you feel like--again, without having to waste the evening plus give Brother Hounder the chance to intrude.
I completely empathize with your situation; My wife, still having trouble accepting the red pill, wants us to go to the memorial still, but I am just dreading it. I've never missed one, even when my parents were inactive, but now I really don't see the point. Is it for only the 144,000 anoited of JWs? Then why do we have to go at all? Did Jesus actually mean for every one of his followers to partake? Than why would I go to a JW memorial where I'm not supposed to partake?
But I fear the wife will force the issue, and I'm sure questions will be asked of our recent whereabouts. I'm also afraid that I won't be able to listen to the talk without going all MST3K on it.
Your situation is at least a choice, and if I had a choice there's no way I would waste a perfectly good evening with that punishment.
Tim: Alfred is right on. Also Vs. 26 is often ommited in the Memorial talk because to validate it would mean an acknowledgment that the Memorial is no longer required. I came to that conclusion some years ago. I am a born-in and after fading did go while my Mom was alive. After her death I went but not to any cong. that knew me. ( I avoided any contact with anyone who knew me so to keep them from stopping by for a sheparding call) This year will be my first out in the open "no I am not going to the Memorial" stand. I do not have any angst about it and am completley at peace with my decision. My personal dedication to God was just that, personal. I too appreciate and value what Jesus is and what his death means to me, and yes many JW's do not have a deep understanding not only of Jesus role in his decision to be there for us but also of Jehovah's faith and unlimited love. Celebrate in your own way as I will. Harleybear.
Quote from Sulla:GromitSK, no. The practice has been, until recently, that the priest or deacon would consume the "wine," rather than distribute it. I think the Orthodox do this, as well. But this is because Jesus is equally present in either bread or wine. So, not really similar.
Just to point out an error. I am Orthodox Christian and we distribute communion to all the faithful who want to participate. We serve the bread and wine (the body and blood of Christ) together in the same chalice or communion cup. The faithful receive both together. We have been doing this unchanged for almost 2000 years.
Not at all the same as to the reject Jesus party the WT event holds.
Peace
Maksym
