Christians don't "warn" people of god's judgement, they "threaten" people with god's judgement. (page 2)

Searril

Well, neither the Westboro Baptish Church nor the Watchtower Society are Christian organizations, so they wouldn't really qualify under the topic. I suppose if someone were so deluded as to actually believe the Watchtower Society was Christian then the topic may have merit as they claim a special relationship with God and love to hand down judgments using their self-appointed power.

JonathanH

It doesn't matter if a christian has the power to wipe gays off the planet, Searril. It matters that they condone that course of action. You can say it's simply not possible to threaten some one if you aren't the one following up on that threat, but that is utterly absurd.

Imagine a gay couple is sitting at a table at a resteraunt and a guy approaches them and says (in a bad italian mafia accent, or at least that is how it sounds in my head, we'll call him Vinny)

Vinny says, "Hey, just to, uh, let you guys know. My buddy over here has a real problem with faggots. They make him go all, like, crazy and he gets real, ya know, stabby, when he sees gay people doin' all this faggoty shit that you got goin on over here."

To which one of the gay persons respond

"are you threatening us?"

"Whoa, whoa, hey, whoa, I didn't threaten anybody, did anybody here me threaten anyone? Whoa, you got me all wrong here pal. I'm not gonna hurt ya, I'm just doin' you the kindness of lettin' you know ahead of time that you need to cut out this queer junk you got goin on over here, or things are gonna get real ugly on account of my friend over there who has a real problem with this gay shit. I mean it's your choice, maybe you think your pants would look better with a few splashes of blood red on them, I don't know, that might be your taste, but personally if it were me, I would like my blood on the inside of my body. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just lettin you know what is about to happen here if you don't cut it out with the queer shit, your move pal."

Now in this scenario, can we really say that the interloper was "warning" them in the first sense of the word, as a kindness, out of concern for their well being? Or was his "warning" a thinly veiled threat? I mean he wasn't going to hurt anybody. But he did obviously condone the actions of his buddy, he wasn't telling his buddy that his actions or prejudices were wrong. He was telling the gay couple that they were.

The concern isn't whether or not the religiously inclined have the power or intent to wipe everyone off the face of the earth that doesn't agree with their moral views. What matters is whether or not that is their preference. If that is their ultimate preference they are just like the guy in this example. Siearril, you even said "You can take God's judgment as a threat if you want, but that's between you and Him. He has the power. I don't. If you don't like what He says about what you should or shouldn't do then take it up with Him one day when you get your chance." Whoa, whoa, whoa, you didn't threaten anybody. You was just bein' kind enough to let everyone know that if they don't clean up their act, it's gonna get real messy in here, that's all you're sayin'. To us. Not to your god.

At no point is my ultimate preference the mass annihilation of religious people. If I had a preference tree in regards to this issue it would go something like

1. People didn't allow ancient superstition to dictate their ethical views, nor made any attempt to make others feel guilty, ashamed, or ostracized for not adhering to said ancient superstition.

Barring that

2. An open dialogue is held in which ideas compete and none are treated as off limits. Poor ideas are thrown into the rubbish bin of history, strong and beneficial ideas spread through the population through reason and communication.

Barring that

3. Continue to attempt to have an open dialogue in which ideas compete, and none are off limits. Repeat ad naseum.

For me there is no ultimate preference of mass annilation of those that do not hold my beliefs. But every major monotheistic religion ends with that preference. The mass murder of the "wicked", where the "wicked" are defined as all those in opposition to that belief, and opposition to that belief is defined as "not explicitly condoning said belief." That is the inherent immorality of the religious mindset, that ultimately mass judgement/execution/torture is the final preference. As long as that remains true, any claims that their "warnings" are out of love and concern ring hollow. They will never be magnanimous warnings out of compassion, they will be thinly veiled demands of acquiescence.

Searril

Is it not possible to do a quote-reply on this board? I cannot see a button for it unless I'm blind.

Vinny says, "Hey, just to, uh, let you guys know. My buddy over here has a real problem with faggots. They make him go all, like, crazy and he gets real, ya know, stabby, when he sees gay people doin' all this faggoty shit that you got goin on over here."

The difference being that Vinny can incite his buddy to do something. Maybe his buddy didn't even notice someone else "acting gay" or whatever, but Vinny can go to his buddy and say "hey, look at those queers over there!" and get him riled up knowing full well the repurcussions of such a thing.

I cannot incite God to do anything. I wouldn't even want to incite God to kill gays. In fact, my non-hatred of gays has gotten me into a few heated discussions at church to be completely honest with you. And I won't even deny that some Christians have an irrational hatred/fear of gays. And I'm not even saying that being gay is ok or not a sin. It very well may be a sin. But I'm not going to sit around gnashing my teeth over it. If it truly is a horrible sin then whoever engages in that behavior will have his chance to talk to God about it some day.

Of course, we cannot honestly say that there aren't a boatload of gay troublemakers too. Like the ones that surrounded a group of Christians reading bible passages concerning homosexuality and ultimately had them arrested and charged with hate crimes (which were later dropped) for reading biblical passages. So much for freedom of religion and the first amendment.

At any rate, I cannot threaten sinners with anything. I am a sinner, so if I were to threaten you I am only threatening myself. But ultimately, it is not a threat because I have zero power to cause anything to come from that "threat" as I cannot call down God's wrath upon anyone.

designs

Southern Baptists are renewing their commitment to the 'Great Commission' preaching a good news that involves the belief in Hell Fire.

LongHairGal

Jonathan H:

I agree with you that they (Christian religions) warn out of self-interest. But, the self-interest I am referring to is that they are interested in gaining converts and people contributing money so that a few people at the top of the game can live an easy life.

sir82

The basic message of proselityzing fundamentalist Christians:

"Do it this way or my god will torture you forever".

The JWs just rephrase it a bit differently:

"Do it this way or Jehovah will slaughter you and your children and Armageddon".

tec

If a christian finds that notion disturbing as well, then that leaves them either disagreeing with god's views and actions, or having to take a long hard look at their biblical moral compass.

Assuming it is God who cares about homose x uality, and assuming He cares about that more than He cares about how one treats one's fellow man.

Anyone hating, inciting to hatred, threatening, mocking, abusing, etc, a gay person should consider that their actions are far worse than the supposed 'sin' that they are railing against.

I am a sinner, so if I were to threaten you I am only threatening myself.

This is a point that bears repeating.

Peace,

Tammy

NewChapter

A person has the right to walk down the street without being accosted and threatened. I know this wasn't a freedom of speech point, but I'd still like to say this.

If I'm walking down the street, and somebody screams at me that his employer wants me to accept a job, and if I don't, the employer is gonna pour gasoline on me and toss a match---I'd say this is a problem. And if the guy is smiling as he says it, bigger problem.

I used to often joke that christians tell me I'm going to Hell on a greased fire pole, with a smile on their face. Sure, maybe they don't think they can incite their god to brutal and horrifying acts, but it surely delights them all the same.

NC

shamus100

Hi Serrail. :)

You said:

You can take God's judgment as a threat if you want, but that's between you and Him. He has the power. I don't. If you don't like what He says about what you should or shouldn't do then take it up with Him one day when you get your chance. But for now, claiming a Christian is "threatening" you with being judged by God is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, and I couldn't agree more. I don't believe in the Bible no more than the Koran. To hold you personally responsible for what a book says that you personally believe is true is ludicrous.

Now if you run around with signs saying kill all fags, that is another story. Unfortunately people will tend to globally label every christian and treat them unkind accordingly. You will see a lot of references to extremist religious groups from here on out; have a sense of humour about it and remember what I said. ;)

Searril

Sure, maybe they don't think they can incite their god to brutal and horrifying acts, but it surely delights them all the same.

Do I seem delighted at the thought of you being brutalized?

Christians don't "warn" people of god's judgement, they "threaten" people with god's judgement.

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