What Does Romans 8:14-17 Mean To A JW? Who is the "All"?

BroMac

from New World Translation:

14: "For all who are lead by God's spirit, these are God's sons.

15: For you did not recieve a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you recieved a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: "Abba, Father!"

16: The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children.

17: If then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together."

Who are the "ALL" that are lead by God's spirit? Who is Paul speaking to? How are they lead by God's spirit?

Also Verses 8,9,10,11 what does that mean? (copy/paste: http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/ro/chapter_008.htm)

So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.

However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU . But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him.

But if Christ is in union with YOU , the body indeed is dead on account of sin, but the spirit is life on account of righteousness.

If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in YOU , he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make YOUR mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in YOU .

Appreciate your thoughts

BroMac

Amelia Ashton

According to Christendom it means all

According to JWdom it means all of the 144,000 only...............I think

sir82

What Amelia said. The "all" are "all" of the anointed folks (anointed per the JW definition).

Per JW theology there have been only 144,000 such anointed ones since 33 AD.

Ding

All of the 144,000...

It's a wonder JWs read anything in the NT at all.

According to the WTS, almost none of it directly applies to them.

BroMac

Do non 144k jw's never get lead by the spirit?
V8 says if your not in harmony with the spirit then you cannot please God!
No jw would say that they do not please God?
Part of the qualifications of Elders/MS is that there is evidence of holy spirit operating in their lives.
Surely they must then be in harmony with the spirit and not the flesh.

How can these scripture in Romans only point to 144k?

Puzzled!

BroMac

isaacaustin

I tried presenting this to my dad years ago. He gave the party-line answer that this was written to the annointed. I told him that, according to JW teachings, Jesus had already intruduced the 'other sheep', so why was Paul here stating that if you are not annointed you are unable to please God. He had no answer. I think as a JW I probably would have said something like:

As other sheep, we are pleasing to God by following the direction he provides to us through the FDS.

I know that is not a great answer, and leaves alot of disconnects logically...but who ever said JW doctrine was defensible?

sir82

Do non 144k jw's never get lead by the spirit?

Oh you'd love this upcoming Sunday's Watchtower study.

It's full of convolutions & double-talk. The point, as best I can follow it, is that any JW, anointed or not anointed, can have holy spirit "operate" on him. "Anointing" is just one form of such "operation". There are other "operations" such as when non-anointed men are appointed as elders. It is said they are "appointed by holy spirit" so it "operates" on them, but they are not necessarily "anointed".

It's a lot of vague mumbo-jumbo.

As best I can tell, that WT article is designed to further minimize the influence of the thousands of JWs who have begun to partake of the memorial emblems over the past 3 or 4 years. By saying that "anointing" is "just one of many ways holy spirit operates", those partakers can be futher marginalized.

designs

'All' being limited to an elect faithful goes way back in christianity- Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians had theologies limiting this word.

BroMac

@issacaustin

"jesus had already introduced the "othersheep"'

great point. Ive never thought of that!

isaacaustin

BroMac, yes but by that point a JW is generally in mental shutdown mode. When caught in such a situation my dad would simply say "I don't know. But the Bible can not contradict itself so perhaps it has some sort of a symbolic meaning, because the rest of the bible shows two classes." And then he would just reason to wait on Jehovah to answer it in his due time, and completely dismiss the issue.

What Does Romans 8:14-17 Mean To A JW? Who is the "All"?

Share this