History of 1914 date

by robB 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • robB
    robB

    Many thanks for the help. I really appreciate the research you've all done. I would like to ask you folks that were previously witnesses if you would have left sooner had someone provided this information to you? -- If you had a clear picture of who came up with the date and how it was done and the history of Russell.

    I've been trying to help a good friend get out for a number of years. He grew up as a witness. We've discussed theological issues for dozens of hours and I think this is a waste of time in his particular case.

  • Ding
    Ding

    Some JWs are really shaken when they read the old literature including the pyramidology and the entirely different date system and "proofs" from what the WTS promotes as truth today.

    Still other JWs aren't affected by that at all.

    They may believe it for doctrinal reasons (trinity, hell, war issues, etc.) or for family and social reasons.

    You never know what will or won't impact a particular individual.

    Some people would stay JWs no matter what you showed them.

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    I wonder what would be the change if the Watchtower renounced the 1914 doctrine?

    A good thread on this forum would be "You would return to the Jehovah's Witnesses if ..."

    I would return if they:

    • Renounced 1914.
    • Admitted Russell was a crack pot.
    • Formally recognised that there is no clear evidence they are God's only channel on earth.
    • Showed love to the spiritually sick, rather than shunning.
    • Recognised they may not have ALL the answers.

    Then again, maybe that's too much to ask?

  • Shawn10538
    Shawn10538

    Your first bullet point is wrong, as others have already said. While CT Russel was still alive, Christ's return was still in 1874, first physically and then when that didn't pan out invisibly. It wasn't until after CTR's death, many years after, that somebody came up with 1914 as the return of Christ.

  • mP
    mP

    Before i give my opinion on Russel and 1914 and the Cheops Pyramid, im going to ask why did R think or trust that this pyramid could hold such a vital answer? Another one of the most other famous ones is that God lives in Pleiades, and that perhaps another related one is the teaching of the end of this system of things.

    To be fair I am going to say I believe Russel had a better understanding of the Bible than most people here today. I also think while he made rediculous public statements in magazines and books, he truely was on the right path if one has a better understanding of the major theme in the Bible. Yes the Bible is about Israel and their God, but the real question is who is God ? What do we really know about God in terms of what he is and not of his personality. Im not going to say much about the jealous, angry, vindictive god of the OT as that would be boring and irrevelant to my point of view.

    So what common teaching or thought do all three of these ideas come from ? What do pyramids, Pleides and the end of the system all have in common ?

    The simple answer is astrology. I personally dont believe in it, but its very easy to see Pastor Russel, the GB and many up there do.

    PYRAMIDS

    Pyramids are all about sun worship. In fact the word pyramid includes pyra the greek for fire. The great pyramid of Cheops is of course thought to be all about studying Orion and the Sun for purposes of calculating time and the yearly events like the flooding of the Nile. It is also points to Orion a very important symbol of the Sun in the night sky.

    Most people say Pleides was selected because Russel heard it was the center of the Milky way of Universe. Actually thats probabloy not true, if you understand Astrology and read about myths you will know Pleaides is every significant in the sky.

    PLEIADES

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades

    In astronomy , the Pleiades , or Seven Sisters ( Messier object 45 or M45), is an open star cluster containing middle-aged hot B-type stars located in the constellation of Taurus . It is among the nearest star clusters to Earth and is the cluster most obvious to the naked eye in the night sky . Pleiades has several meanings in different cultures and traditions .

    ...

    Brightest stars in Pleiades

    A map of the Pleiades

    ...

    The nine brightest stars of the Pleiades are named for the Seven Sisters of Greek mythology: Sterope, Merope, Electra, Maia, Taygeta, Celaeno, and Alcyone, along with their parents Atlas and Pleione. As daughters of Atlas, the Hyades were sisters of the Pleiades. The English name of the cluster itself is of Greek origin, though of uncertain etymology. Suggested derivations include: from πλεîν pleîn, to sail, making the Pleiades the "sailing ones"; from pleos, full or many; or from peleiades, flock of doves. The following table gives details of the brightest stars in the cluster:

    Job 9:9

    Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

    Job 38:31-32

    Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades , or loose the bands of Orion?

    Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

    Pleiades is mentioned directly and indirectly in the Bible. The seven daughters of Jethro wast not only a priest but he also had 7 daughters, one who married Moses. Jethros other name in the Bible is Reuel which means friend of El or God. These seven daughters are considered to be nuns. Its a fair assumption that Moses must have learnt about God here.

    Exodus 18
    When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel his people, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;

    Then Jethro, Moses' father in law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife, after he had sent her back,

    I could go into more details but even a skeptic must realise that Job at the very least respects the Zodiac as having power and influence over the daily events of man.

    END OF THE SYSTEM

    What most people do not understand is what exactly do these words mean. Nearly all the mentions of this by Jesus actually use the Aeon which corresponds to our age. Jesus is not talking about the end of the world, but the end of an age. So what age is Jesus talking about ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon

    The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion . Both these words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”. Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternity, being translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, etc. However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations, such as Matthew 28:20 : “…I am with you always, to the end of the age” (NRSV), the word “age” being a translation of aion . Rendering aion to indicate eternality in this verse would result in the contradictory

    It may come as a shock but jesus entire life is actually written in the stars and the zodiac.

    - Jesus is talking about the Age of Pisces.

    - The age of Pisces began the very year Jesus is believed to have been born around 1BC, give or take.

    - The age of Pisces is supposed to end about now. I believe this is why the WTS really believes the end is soon.

    - Jesus is the Sun

    - Jesus birthday is Xmas or the Winter Solstice because the sun dies in winter and here it starts to grow stronger. Ever ask yourself how did xians back then just accept a solar holiday ? They didnt they already knew about it.

    - The sun saves us from the dark and cold.

    - The fish symbol on car bumpers is an acknowledgement of this. The Roman Catholic Church knows jesus is the sun and astrology. If anything they are more faithful to the truth of the Bible and all ancient religions. All ancient religions are about nature worship, particularly the sun.

    - The sun dies on a cross - in fact it dies at the southern cross on December 21 for three days. On December 25 it starts travelling up higher again.

    - Its no coincidence that Easter or the memorial happens on the Spring Equinox. This is the time the Sun becomes stronger than the dark, in that the days become longer than night and its also the start of spring and new life. This is the ressurrection of Jesus.

    Most of the symbology that Jesus uses is astrological. Below is a page with a brief summary of the zodiac connection. There are more books that go on about this topic. Im sure you will realise there are far too many conincedences. Notice that each zodiac sign is visited in order in the gospels. Aries is the sign of Spring that is why the gospels start in Aires.

    http://www.usbible.com/astrology/gospel_zodiac.htm

    I've used Matthew as the primary Gospel because it is the most complete. The other two synoptic gospels, Mark and Luke, are variations of Matthew. The Book of John has a twist that deserves separate treatment.

    CAPRICORN, THE SEA GOAT, DECEMBER 22-JANUARY 19

    The sun's position starts at lowest point in horizon and ascends upward as the days get longer. Goats are known to habitat rocky mountains which stand higher than the sun on the horizon at this time of the year. Rocks symbolize barrenness and goats can be associated with dark places like mangers, where they are kept. This is a time of darkness when evil forces are in control.

    1. The goat half of Capricorn has a symbolic reference to the scapegoat used to carry away the sins of the people of the wilderness (Lev. 16:8, 10). The fish half alludes to water, chaos and birth as in Genesis 1:2.
    2. Matt. 1:18-2:23 tells us when Jesus was born; Herod tried to have him killed.
    3. Luke 2:12 refers to Capricorn when he tells us the baby was born in a manger. Mangers can be seen as dark places where there is no lighting.
    4. The sun is not born until December 25 when days start to grow noticeably longer.
    5. It's a new sun in its virgin stage. This is similar to the term, new moon, which survived from the days of ancient moon worshipers.
    6. Since the entire sky can be seen as God's universe, the sun of God is referred to as the son of God.
    7. The three magi in (Matt. 2:1) symbolize the three stars forming a waist belt in the winter constellation of Orion.
    8. The star of Bethlehem (Matt. 2:2) is symbolized by the brightest star in the winter sky, Sirius, in the constellation, Canis Major. To Egyptian astronomers, Sirius' rising marked the beginning of their new year.
    9. The three stars in Orion's belt are aligned along a southeast direction, pointing towards Sirius. Since stars, like the sun, always rise from the east, it would appear as three stars were following one bright star. Or as the star of Bethlehem guiding the magi.
      Ahead of them, went the star that they had seen at its rising (Matt. 2:10).
    10. If the magi were on land, they couldn't come from the east and follow a star from the east. But if both are in the sky, it makes sense.
    11. The constellations would appear to stop when they are directly overhead. The magi entered the "house" [of Capricorn] (Matt. 2:10).
    12. In the first twelfth of the cycle, he was a child prodigy at twelve years old (Luke 2:42-47). Jesus tells his parents, Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house? (Luke 2:49). In other words, he must enter each house of the zodiac.
    13. As constellations, the magi could not return to Herod. They had to continue west.
    14. Capricorn covers Matt. 1:18-2:23
    AQUARIUS, THE WATER BEARER, JANUARY 20-FEBRUARY 18

    Water and light is the essence of all life (Gen 1:2-3). The sun needs water to bring new life into the world.

    1. 30 degrees on the Zodiac.
      30 Jesus is 30 years old when he begins his mission. (Luke 3:23).
    2. Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist (Matt. 3:13-17). John can be seen in the constellation Aquarius. SeeJohn the Baptist's Stars.
    3. Jesus temptation in the wilderness Matt. 4:1-11. The sun is too weak to overpower Satan, but it hasn't reversed into darkness.
    4. Aquarius covers Matt. 3:1-4:11
    PISCES THE FISHES, FEBRUARY 19-MARCH 20

    The sun needs food to sustain it on its journey. There are no grains or meat at this time.

    1. The sun is rising on the horizon, but there is still more darkness.
    2. Jesus collects his disciples. The first are fishermen. Matt. 4:18-22
    3. Pisces covers Matt. 4:12-4:22
    ARIES, THE RAM/LAMB, MARCH 21-APRIL 19

    Starts with the spring or vernal equinox, when days and nights are equal. This is when the sun's strength starts to become apparent.

    1. Time of year when lambs are born. The flock begins to increase.
    2. Sermon on mount (Matt. 5:1-7:29). His spiritual guidebook.
    3. Jesus attracts followers by performing miracles (Matt. 8:1-9:38).
    4. He's gathered as many followers as he could by himself.
      37 Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few;
      38 pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest." Matt. 9:37-38).
    5. Aries covers Matt. 4:23-9:38.
    TAURUS, THE BULL, APRIL 20-MAY 20

    Bulls are needed for plowing and tilling the fields. The bulls are his disciples.

    1. Sermon on Mission (Matt. 10:1-42). Jesus tells his disciples what they need to do to add followers.

    2. The disciples go out to their cities to preach the message (Matt. 11:1).
    3. John the Baptist is a bull of a different breed (Matt.11:2-19).
    4. Jesus reproaches unrepentant towns (Matt.11:20-24).
    5. There is still much work to be done. It's time to take the yoke off and rest.
      28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
      29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matt.11:28-30).
    6. Taurus covers Matt. 10:1-11:30.
    GEMINI, THE TWINS, MAY 21-JUNE 21

    A time of increasing or doubling as the sun reaches its zenith. It ends on the Summer solstice when days are the longest and nights the shortest. The sun is at the peak of its strength.

    1. Season noted in Matt.12:1 when Jesus and his disciples go through grain fields plucking heads of grain to eat.

    2. Shows strength in Lord of the Sabbath parable in Matt.12:1-8.
      8 For the Son of Man is the lord of the sabbath.
    3. Shows unbeatable power over demons. Cures man with withered hand at Matt.12:9-14. Cures a man who is blind and mute (Matt. 12:22).
    4. At its zenith, the sun straddles over its descent into darkness. The Pharisees are made to call him the prince of demons.
      24 But when the Pharisees heard it they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." (Matt. 12:24)
    5. Gemini covers Matt. 12:1-24
    CANCER, THE CRAB, JUNE 22-JULY 22

    The sun has crossed a major divide; darkness starts to increase. Crabs walk in a zigzag path, sideways and backwards at the same time in a kind of a backsliding movement. This is a time for assessment and division.

    1. In a parable, Matt. 12:25-37, Jesus talks of division:
    2. And of assessment: for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
    3. In "The Sign of Jonah" parable, Matt. 12:28-45. The people of Nineveh listened to Jonah and were saved because they repented. But those who did not listen will not be saved .
    4. Jesus has to depart from his family because he can't take them with him, Matt. 12:46-50
    5. Covers Matt. 12:25-50
    LEO, THE LION, JULY 23-AUGUST 22

    This is a time of strength when the sun goes to the end of the growing season to the time of harvest. At the end of the growing season, food is plentiful, and seeds have to be stored for the next season.

    1. In a sermon on establishing God's kingdom, Matt. 13:1-23, Jesus talks of it as a place where the harvest will be stored.

    2. The season is noted by the "Weeds Among the Wheat" parable, Matt. 13:24-30.
      30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.
    3. In the "Parable of the Mustard Seed", Matt. 13:31-33.
      33 The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that someone took and sowed in his field.
    4. 40 Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.

    5. Covers Matt. 13:1-53.
    VIRGO, THE VIRGIN, AUGUST 22-SEPTEMBER 21

    Virgo is depicted as a woman with grain stalks in her hand. This is when the harvest is turned into food. As the sun descends below its peak, this is also a time when troubles start to emerge.

    1. The people in his home town of Nazareth were suspicious of his wisdom and power (Matt. 13:54-58).
      57 Prophets are not without honor except in their own country and in their own house.
    2. John the Baptist's life ends with his head being cut off. When Jesus crosses the equinox (Matt. 14:1-12), the head of Aquarius rises without its body.
    3. Jesus feeds five thousand with five loaves and two fish. (Matt. 14:13-21). Virgo was known as the house of bread and the two fish represent Pisces. In the zodiac wheel below, Virgo and Pisces are separated by five houses.
    4. Jesus walks on water (Matt. 14:22-33). With the harvesting complete, the water has completed its life giving miracle. This is the first time his ghost appears. See Jesus' Ghost.
    5. In the "Tradition of the Elders" parable, Jesus explains his reason for not washing before eating (Matt. 15:1-19).
    6. Feeds four thousand with seven loaves and a few fish. (Matt. 15:32-39) In the zodiac wheel below, there are five houses between Virgo and Pisces, and two more when we count Virgo and Pisces.
    7. In the "Sign of Jonah" parable: The sky is threatening. There will be no sign except the sign of Jonah (Matt. 16:4). The sign won't appear until the sun stays at its lowest time of descent for three days as Jonah was three days in the fish's belly.
    8. Virgo covers Matt. 13:54-16:4
    LIBRA, THE BALANCE, SEPTEMBER 23-OCTOBER 23

    The balance symbolizes the fall equinox when days and nights are equal. It is a time for settling debts by weighing the good against the bad.

    1. They have left the House of Bread in Virgo. There is no bread. Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Matt. 16:5-12)
    2. In Peter's "Confession about Jesus" (Matt. 16:13-28), Jesus talks about settling debts:
      27 For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done.

    3. When Peter and Jesus talk about the temple tax, Jesus asks:
      25 What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tribute? From their sons or from others?"
      26 When Peter said, "From others, Jesus said to him, "Then the children are free." (Matt. 17:24-27)
    4. In the "Sermon on Life in the Kingdom of God", Matt. 18:1-35, Jesus talks about the price of getting into the kingdom of heaven.
      23 "Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
    5. When it comes to settling debts, money issues can't be left out. In the parable of "The Rich Young Man", Matt. 19:16-30, Jesus tells the man:
      21 "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
    6. The "Workers in the Vineyard" parable, Matt. 20:1-16, is another parable about wages and compensation.
    7. Jesus heads towards Jerusalem starting with Matt. 20:17 and enters the city at v10. He knew he would meet his demise (Matt. 20:18-19).
    8. Jesus drives the moneychangers out of the temple, Matt. 21:12-17.
    9. It's in the fall when figs have no fruit. Jesus' curses a fig tree for not bearing fruit, Matt. 21:18-22.
    10. In the "Parable of the Tenants", Matt. 21:33-46, Jesus' parables are getting more violent. For example:
      39 And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
    11. More talk of violence in the "Parable of the Wedding Feast", Matt. 22:1-14.
      7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
    12. Jesus denounces the scribes and the Pharisees, Matt. 23:1-39. He is angry.
      33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
    13. In the Sermon on Mt. Olive, Matt. 24, 25, Jesus talks about tribulation.
      7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
    14. Libra covers Matt. 16:5-25:46.
    SCORPIO, THE SCORPION, OCTOBER 24-NOVEMBER 21

    The sun is getting weaker and the air is cold, remindful of a scorpion's sting. Scorpions are seen as crawling creatures who frequent cracks, holes and other secluded spots, so they are associated with acts of secrecy and evil. This is a time of argument and conflict.

    1. Judas plots to betray Jesus, Matt. 26:14-16. When the sun crosses the equinox, it is allegorized as being arrested or betrayed by the dark forces.
    2. The time of the year is marked by the name, Gethsemane (Matt. 26:36), which means oil press or olive press. Olives used for oil are harvested late winter when the fruit is at its ripest.
    3. At Gethsemane (Matt. 26:36-46), Jesus talks about his death
      38 "I am deeply grieved, even to death; remain here, and stay awake with me."
    4. Jesus is betrayed by Judas and arrested, Matt. 26:47-56.
    5. Judas kisses Jesus when Scorpio kisses the sun as it passes through.
      48 Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, "The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him." (Matt. 26:48)
    6. Ends with Jesus' arrest, Matt. 26:55-56.
    7. Scorpio covers Matt. 26:1-26:56.

    SAGITTARIUS, THE ARCHER, NOVEMBER 22-DECEMBER 21

    At the Winter solstice on December 21, the sun enters the lowest point on the horizon. The next three days are the darkest days of the year. The scorpion's stings turn into the archer's arrows. The weakened sun is going to die a violent death on the solstice.

    1. He's put on trial by the Jewish high council, Matt. 26:57-67.
    2. Trial again before the Roman governor, Pilate, Matt. 27:11-26.
    3. Crucified in Matt. 27:32-56. His pierced body is symbolized by the archer's arrows.
    4. Sagittarius covers Matt. 26:57-28:20
    DECEMBER 22-25

    1. The three days following December 21 remain perceptibly the darkest days of the year. Jesus dies and remains unseen for three days.
    2. The first day when daylight gets noticeably longer. The sun is seen to come back to life. Three days have passed and Jesus is seen again (Matt. 28).
    3. His Resurrection starts in the spring during the solar equinox. In biblespeak, the sun has conquered darkness.
    THE AGE OF PISCES 6 BCE TO 2012 CE

    1. Before the sun entered Pisces Jesus was the Lamb of God in Aries. See When Was Jesus Born.
      29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
    2. After his resurrection, he entered Pisces the fish.
      42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate before them. (Luke 24:42-43).
    3. The Age of Pisces ends approximately in 2012 CE. This is when Jesus' time ends. 20 "I am with you always to the end of the age." (Matt. 28:20).
    OTHER

    1. Jesus is referred to as carpenter in Mark 6:3. Carpenters build houses.
    2. The number seventy is rounded off from the zodiacal seventy-two. 72 * 360 = 2590, the number of years in a Zodiac Great Year.
      1 After this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to come. (Luke 10:1).
    3. Room and house are synonymous with house of the Zodiac. The man carrying a jar of water describes Aquarius. Aquarius is a large constellation which Luke describes as a large upper room.
      10 He said to them, "Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him into the house which he enters, 11 and tell the householder, 'The Teacher says to you, Where is the guest room, where I am to eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12 And he will show you a large upper room furnished; there make ready." (Luke 22:10-12).
    4. The place of their last supper symbolizes the Age of Aquarius, the time of his return.
    5. 15 And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer;
      16 for I tell you I shall not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." (Luke 22:15-16)

      2 In my Father's house are many rooms. (John 14:2)

    6. The two heavy lines form the cross of the Zodiac on which the sun dies. The Christian cross represents the length of days at each cardinal point: The short leg represents the winter solstice, the long leg the summer solstice and the two equal legs represent the spring and fall solstices. Thus, the sun dies on the cross.
    7. At sunrise and sunset the sun's rays have to pass through a much greater thickness of atmosphere. As a result, nearly all the blue light is scattered out by the particles in the air. This is what causes red sunrises and sunsets. As the season approaches the winter solstice, the sun sinks lower towards its lowest position on December 22. At lower angles the sun has more atmosphere to punch through, so red sunrises and sunsets appear with increasing frequency.
      Ancients saw these natural events as their sun god weakening as it was falling and bleeding.
      "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. (Mark 14:24)
      In the photograph below, the reflection of the suns rays was allegorized as Jesus walking on water. SeeJesus' Ghost

    8. I am the light of the world.
      12 ."I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)
      5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." (John 9:5)
    9. Jesus crown of thorns symbolizes the sun's corona. Pictures of a halo around his head have the same significance.
      17 And they clothed him in a purple cloak, and plaiting a crown of thorns they put it on him. (Mark 15:17)

    CONCLUSION

    After all that one can see if one believes in astrology, one can see how Russel got all his ideas and how the GB continues this fine tradition. Of course asstrology is nonsense thats why even if you read the signs correctly your predictions will fail.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Interesting research, but I'M JUST A LITTLE CONCERNED about discussing 1874 and there is no mention of the fundamental basis for that date. Some mention in connection to the 6000 years was mentioned, but that would be supplemental.

    The concern is that there is no mention of the connection of 1874 with the "1335 days" prophecy. 1874 was supposed to fulfill the 1335 days and that was linked with the 2nd coming. Thus any discussion/reference to 1874 should at least acknowledge that primary basis.

    Basically, it was believed the 1335 days were fulfilled by 1874 with the 1335 days being linked with the founding of the Catholic Church c. 538 BC. I think this is more fundamental than an attempt to link the 6000 years to that date.

    JIOR INTERPRETATION FOR 1874: Just as a passing note, 1874 is considered to be a valid date for the beginning of the PAROUSIA! The parousia is those events leading up to the actual second coming. That is, there is a period of preparation that takes place that leads up to the 2nd coming. This includes a preliminary preaching work first, that brings in many from Christendom into the temple sect of JWs. This fits the parable of the dragnet where the sea represents Christendom, the earth representing accurate Bible knowledge and Jehovah's recognized organization. The SAND represents the WTS, which is partly or loosely based on a firm Bible understanding. So in simple terms, the earth or rock mass is what is based solidly on the Bible. The Sand would be the exegesis of the Watchtower. The sea is Christendom, whose doctrines are tossed back and forth by the winds. So the dragnet is the preaching work which brings in fish out of Christendom into the WTS, which is the sand. But after that, the good fish from the worthless fish are separated. So this is part of the PAROUSIA.

    Having noted that, Daniel 12:1 mentions when Christ "stands up." After Christ was resurrected, he dwells in heaven at the right hand of the Father until it is near time for his second coming. When that time approaches, Michael (who is Jesus Christ) "stands up." That is, he begins the preliminary work of what is needed before he arrives, just as John the Baptist preached first to gather disciples and then Christ gathered his disciples from those following John. Thus the official date for the beginning of the PAROUSIA, which is in a way is the beginning of the second coming, still is legitimately dated to 1874. Note that 1874 is the 120-year generation ending in 1994. 1914-1994 is the "last generation" of 80 years, a normal lifespan.

    Thus 1874 and 1914 are still ligitimate dates when relating to the "last generation" of either 120-years (1874-1994) or of 80 years (1914-1994). So Christ's presence did begin in 1874. That is when Michael stands up from his sitting position and begins the preparation for the second coming of Christ, which is througth the temple sect of JWs.

    1914 is a legitimate reference to the "last generation" of 80 years that would see the Christ's actual return. This generation would begin with a world war, that is, "nation vs. nation and kingdom vs. kingdom." What 1914 is NOT is the "end of the gentile times" (1947) or the second coming (1992). But it is still a legitimate marker for the last generation of 80 years, just as 1874 is a good marker for the beginning of Christ's presence (PAROUSIA).

    Of course, if you do the research, you'll discover that there is secular evidence of the original timeline that got distorted during the Persian Period. Case in point, the VAT4956 which preserves year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II to 511 BCE. That means Jerusalem fell in 529 BCE (not 607 or 587 BCE), dating the 2nd coming 2520 years later in 1992. The critical observation here is that 1992 does occur before 1994, the end of the 1914-1994 "last generation." So everything is being fulfilled just as prophesied.

    Even so, it is important to note that the WTS linked the fulfillment of the "1335 days" and the second coming first to 1874. The "1335 days" are correctly fulfilled by the end of Jewish exile in 1947 which ends the 1290 days. The messiah was to return 45 years later to fulfill the "1335 days" and thus in 1992. The VAT4956 astronomical text confirms year 37 of Neb-II fell in 529 BCE, the significance of which is that it also would date the 2nd coming in 1992.

    The WTS has been cast into spiritual darkness. But for those who want the correct fulfillment, the 2nd coming must be dated in 1992-1993, if not, you have the wrong doctrine.

    LS

  • cantleave
  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    robB:

    Had I understood all the past changes and how they came about, I doubt very much I would have ever continued studies with JWs. While I was young when I began the studies, I was told that first Russell thought Jesus returned in 1874 but then corrected their understanding, and that was about all I've heard of the date. This is typical deception that watchtower uses on people, had I known that 1874 was preached and taught for over 50 years the outcome for my life may have been very different. Another jw urban legend is that wts proclaimed 1914 as understood today some 40 years prior to 1914 itself which is proof that God had directed Russell. When you look at the watchtower publications, many times they will talk about Jesus and 1914 and will put this idea that WTS preached the end of Gentile Times some 40 years prior - which is deceptively true, as there are 4 items that fall under today's understanding of 1914 and only end of Gentile Times has been pointed to 1914 by Russell while the other items as mentioned earlier had nothing to do with the date, but because of today's teaching, JWs don't grasp the meaning of what they read in their own publications.

    This is how JWs go about their changed teaching, one time wts "thought"........ while they don't mention that at one time wts taught and preached the old idea as FACT and teaching from God.

  • NOLAW
    NOLAW

    mP: I agree with your conclusion.

  • cofty
    cofty
    I've used Matthew as the primary Gospel because it is the most complete. The other two synoptic gospels, Mark and Luke, are variations of Matthew. - mP

    Mark is the oldest gospel. Matthew and Luke used most of Mark and added their own sources.

    I can't follow what point you are making with the astrology information, it seem svery contrived.

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