Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    And please don't do so with the standard "I don't know the answer - but there surely must be one." or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.

    Here goes:

    I find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose. It seems capable of any level of cognitive hide and seek, in order to escape rationallity/believe myths to be history.

    When I was a believer in Christianity [over 40+ years], I must have read and 'studied' the Plagues of Egypt a thousand times - at least. Yet, until I read it recently, I never saw this absolutely blatant example of misrepresentation in the text.

    If you look at Chapter 9 of Exodus, it speaks of a pla gue upon all the livestock and cattle of the Egyptians [plague #5]. It says that all the Egyptian cattle were killed by this plague :

    Exodus 9:1-6 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, so that they may worship me.” If you refuse to let them go and continue to hold them back, the hand of the LORD will bring a terrible plague on your livestock in the field—on your horses, donkeys and camels and on your cattle, sheep and goats. But the LORD will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt, so that no animal belonging to the Israelites will die. The LORD set a time and said, “Tomorrow the LORD will do this in the land.” And the next day the LORD did it: All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the Israelites died.

    Then chapter 12, just a few days later:

    Exodus 12:1,13,29 On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt... At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

    So, Theists who accept this account as literal [for I am sure that many will just excuse it as figurative/metaphorical - a typical approach to ignoring cognitive dissonance], how did this happen?

    Just as an aside: Why were the animals tortured and killed in these plagues? Or those in prison? Or the common people? None of these had any influence on the 'hard heart' of Pharoah. In fact, it was not the pain inflicted on the common people that finally caused him to release the Israelites, but the personal pain of his own son's death that did so. Was God not able to see that his plagues could have just been visited on Pharoah, and accomplished the same result? Or does your God just prefer to watch blood flow freely from innocent children, animals, prisoners, women, old men and old women in order to demonstrate his power to kill if others don't listen to his dictates, even threatening his own people if they failed to obey his rules for passover?

    Just curious.

    Jeff

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    Perhaps you should retitle your thread "Biblical literalists - Please Explain This......." rather than using the term "Theists" while you still have time to do so. Not all theists are literalists, as you yourself imply further down the post.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Good point - I may retitle it later depending on response. But it may serve a wider and more important purpose addressed to all believers, as they all suffer from delusions to one level or another regarding god.

    Jeff

  • I Want to Believe
    I Want to Believe

    Not all theists even have to believe in the Bible at all, much less take it as infallible.

    Anyway, some say it's a simple translation problem having to do with sentence structure, as in it should say "All the cattle that did die belonged to the Egyptians, but not one died that belonged to the Israelites."

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Ok. But how did they die twice? They died during the fifth plague, and then again during the tenth plague? This is not a translation issue - the statements are separated by hundreds of words between.

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Ok. I see what you are saying - that not all the cattle died during the 5th plague. Is that not what God said would happen though? That ALL the cattle would die during the fifth plague?

    What sort of GOD is unable to kill all the livestock at once? Another theological dilemma has unfolded in an effort to repair this leak.

    Jeff

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Hah hah hah!!!

    Well, that's the trouble with Middle-Eastern story-tellers...

    They can't keep their myths straight...

  • Terry
    Terry

    Once you insert the word GOD into a sentence it is like dealing four deuces in a deuces wild game.

    Anything is anything. Everything is anything.

    Rules don't apply. Logic is suspended.

    Free ride.

    This is why intellectually dishonest thinkers rely so heavily on the Authority of Scripture and insist on Inerrancy so emphatically. They don't really have to explain anything beyond the point "God says..."

    Factually, authority isn't proof or evidence. It is mere force.

    So, let's look at the bible stories as word-of-mouth tales passed down generation after generation to children and repeated with variances over a long period of time.

    These accretions produce something not unlike the Iliad or Odyssey attributed to "Homer".

    It is not too far a stretch to think Homer's stories influeced the telling of the Hebrew bible tales.

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    "...some say it's a simple translation problem..."

    Funny thing, God first scrambles the language and creates all kinds of unrelated languages, then provides his inspired word in a two, max three languages (and not all of it in all) and then fusses over the majority of us (not native speakers of said languages, btw) not understanding exactly what the message is.

    In the everyday parlance, I'd call this WTF.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Agreed Terry and Yan.

    Jeff

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