Amicus,
You're a sweetheart too! I have sense in your post a personality that is best described "still waters run deep".
Our opinion of the Bible differs but we do agree on the parts about love. And whatever works for you, keep doing it.
I think we all need to choose our own path. Whatever makes us content and happy, as long as it doesn't harm others, go for it!!!
TW
Are you Ex's still Christian?
by joel 63 Replies latest jw friends
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thinkers wife
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RR
Joel
If ya don't mine my askin'...I was wonderin' about your Church and what your involvement is there.
Well Joel, some would probably say I went from the frying pan into the fire, but I beg to differ. While I was still serving with the Jehovah's Witnesses, doing my research, I came across the International Bible Students and began studying with them, I eventually resigned my position within the congregations and eventually left altogether, and since that time I have been affiliated with a small Bible Student Church in my area, (some ten years now] I currently serve as an elder, writing, speaking, publishing, witnessing and loving it ... all to the praise of my heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ!
"People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"
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VeniceIT
We had a similar discussion on H2O last week.
Posted by Venice [VeniceIT] on January 12, 2001 at 11:49:13 {bkofpB3yps/CPYT8orz2.bhvhyEsfQ}:
In Reply to: JWs PRIVATE PIPELINE 2GOD posted by Englishman on January 12, 2001 at 06:15:47:
I'm glad you have an open mind. It's amazing what the exJW experience can do to ones Faith and belief in God. We were drilled that the JW's were God's only people. SO when we learn they're not, it raises doubts such is there even a God? Your not alone as you can see from the posts.
I refuse to judge anyone on what they believe, because it's a personal choice, and everyone has had jsut differnet experiences, I don't know what I'd believe if I'd had some of thiers. Personally I belive in Jehovah and Jesus, even more strongly then I did when I was a Dub. I've learned to have a realtion ship with them that was not dependant on anyone else. I belive the Bible, BUT here's the BUT, I don't belive with the interprataions of most 'Chrisitan' religions along esp. JW's.
I belive that the Gosples was written to give us an insight into the life of Jesus and to learn what it means to be a Chrisitan, how we need to have Faith and love. The rest of the letters, where just that. Although inspired were not ment to be rules, they were letters about matters that applied to certain people in a certain time period. We can learn from them, but we do live in a different time and so things are different. To make a bazillion rules based on them for our day is rediculas and going above and beyond. Making any dogmatic statements is wrong, because we weren't there and don't know for sure what everything means or what really happens when we die. I feel that if we belive in God and his son, and try to be the best people we can then when we die, what ever happens will be fine with me. That's what faith is, is it really Faith if you know exactly what's going to happen (like JW's claim). NO it's just waiting for a reward.
I have my resons for my belifs, I know I was given help by 'The God of comfort'when I went through my Heresy Trials, and lost all family and friends. I remember being a total wreck, those knots in your stomach and would so tight I'd pop, and then I'd pray, and talk about what was going on, and the pain, and I would feel comforted. And be able to relax and go to sleep. Some people might have thier own explantion for this, but I know it was comfort from God, and that's what I believe. He's been there for me and that's why I trust and love him. I know others don't feel this way, and that's why we're all free agents.
Don't decide one way or the other two quickly. Think through it, feel through it, do your research and then make a decsion based on what YOU feel. Don't let anyone else influence you in your decisong, feel free to ask questions but make up your own mind. That's the only way you can feel comfortable in your choice.
Have a great journey,
Venice -
amicus
TW,
I feel the need to clarify my view of Christianity vs.other befiefs.
My older brother is a devout buddist, my sister is a catholic, my younger brother is a, well aaaa......., a jock. Imho opinion all of them are more Christlike than I. I'm quite content to read the bible, work on myself, and leave everyone else alone. Well, that is, unless they ask.......You're a sweetheart too! I have sense in your post a personality that is best described "still waters run deep".
Thanks for the compliment.I enjoyed this thought:
"We were lawless people, But we were on pretty good terms with the Great Spirit, creator and ruler of all. You whites assumed we were savages. You didn't understand our prayers. You didn't try to understand. When we sang our praises to the sun or moon or wind, you said we were worshiping idols. Without understanding, you condemned us as lost souls just because our form of worship was different from yours.
We saw the Great Spirit's work in almost everything: sun, moon, trees, wind and mountains. Sometimes we approached him through these things. Was that so bad? I think we have a true belief in the supreme being, a stronger faith than that of most whites who have called us pagans....Indians living close to nature and nature's ruler are not living in darkness.
Did you know that trees talk? Well they do. They talk to each other, and they'll talk to you if you listen. Trouble is, white people don't listen. They never learned to listen to the Indians so I don't suppose they'll listen to other voices in nature. But I have learned a lot from trees: sometimes about the weather, sometimes about animals, sometimes about the Great Spirit"
-Tatanga Mani (Walking Buffalo) -
mgm
No, I'm not christian anymore. I'm not even shure about god's existence anymore. The bible is not inspirated in my opinion.
We had a similar topic in a german forum lately, and it turned out, that a big part have no religion anymore, even a lot are atheists.
I study books about evolution, biblecritics, history and so on...the knoweledge from this book turned me away from god... -
larc
It is time to state my opinion,
Well, I read many thoughts before I decided to jump into the fray, because what I believe is very personal, but similiar to MGM's so I guess it is a good time to try to explain myself. I am an agnotic, which simply means "I don't know", and I don't think is possible to know. The idea of a God and the idea of no God are both incomprensable. Now, if there is God does he really care and why should he? Maybe this is just one of God's terariums that he set up just to see what would happen. Do I believe in special creation? No. Perhaps there was a God that created but used evolution to do it. That makes sense to me. Do I believe that all of the Bible is inspired? No. Mathematicaly, there is no way, for example, that the Noah story is true. Go back and read the demensions and the time they spent on the boat and then explain to me how it could be true. Was Israel God's choosen people? Go read the book of Joshua and tell me why any people could be more destrucive than Hitler and Stalin. Explain to me why Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking around, yet Lot and his two daughters lived and on a trip the daughters got their father drunk and f..K'd him and they are blessed people? David raped his step sister and he was called the apple of God's eye. And this is inspirational? If this is the good part, what did they throw away and not include in the inspired word.
Why would God choose one nation, the Israelites to the disadvantage of the Chinese, the people of India, Europe, and North and South America. What kind of egocentric BS is that? God has a whole globe to look at and he picks out this one tiny tribe and favors them? If you were God, is that what you would do? I think that is a very good question to ask. "If I was God. what would I do?" Would you create imperfect people and then kill them for being imperfect. Would you allow them pockets of ignorance and kill them for their ignorance? Would you ask them to tell you how wonderful you are and require that they pray to you for forgiveness day in and day out? I wouldn't ask that of my children. Why would God? Yes, you can tell me that Jesus died for our imperfections, but it seems to me that most God fearing people are just that, in a perpetual state of fear. That is no way to live and I refue to live that way. When I die, and if I wake up somewhere that will be a wonderful surprise, but for people to think, and here is were the JWs come into play, that you can work your butt off to curry God's favor, and you need the threat of destruction in order to force you to do it is both an insult to God and to human intelligence.
The Jw's need the threat of Armageddon to keep people faithful. If you were God, wouldn't you find that insulting? I think goodness is its own reward, and it gives a better life here and now, and if our goodness translates into something beyond this life, that would be nice, but don't be good for pie in the sky some day. Goodness is its own reward. -
larc
If you were God,
Would you want people to pray and tell you how wonderful you are and how pitiful they are? I would think, "Hey knock it off already, I know I'm wonderful and I know you're pitiful, that's how I made you." Would you want people to pray to you for special favors? Not me. I would ignore those prayers. I would simply think that you are better off to figure out how to get things done on your own. Now, that would mean that the majority of prayers are stupid and futile.
Now, if you want to pray for strength during a bad time, I think that's OK. Whether the strength comes from within you or from outside you doesn't matter. It's a good thing.
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amicus
larc,
Occasionally as I read these posts I come across statements that say far more that what they appear to on the surface.Goodness is it's own reward
Is one of those statements. Most religions don't emphasize this IMHO because it dosen't allow them to control their adherents. I also suspect that if one is trying to live as a "good" person for any other reason, they are living a lie. -
happytobefree
Larc,
You took the words right out of my mouth. If any Christian, could just give you true, straight answer to all of your replies. And not answer them from the book (bible) that you question in the first place.
Anyhow, I just had a baptist minister (who is a wonderful human being), come by with his wife (See JW other do go door to door, except he called and made an appointment, it's call courtesy) to talk to my husband and I about Christ. He had knew of my beliefs, because I have worked with him on different community projects and our sons are very good friends. Well he was very respectful of my position, and very wonderful about explaining his (without getting angry) beliefs. And he left with saying a prayer for our family (beautifully done) and he did not leave one ounce of literature or invite us to his church. Anyway back to my point, I have been reading all of John as he suggested and I pretty much still feel the way I always have. It's great to have a belief system that gets you motivated, and it's only bad when this belief system if forced upon those who do not want to accept it. (and that one of my biggest concerns with the JW)
Happy to be Free (Me)
Edited by - happytobefree on 19 January 2001 13:15:55
Edited by - happytobefree on 19 January 2001 13:18:20
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RedhorseWoman
"We were lawless people, But we were on pretty good terms with the Great Spirit, creator and ruler of all. You whites assumed we were savages. You didn't understand our prayers. You didn't try to understand. When we sang our praises to the sun or moon or wind, you said we were worshiping idols. Without understanding, you condemned us as lost souls just because our form of worship was different from yours.
We saw the Great Spirit's work in almost everything: sun, moon, trees, wind and mountains. Sometimes we approached him through these things. Was that so bad? I think we have a true belief in the supreme being, a stronger faith than that of most whites who have called us pagans....Indians living close to nature and nature's ruler are not living in darkness.
Did you know that trees talk? Well they do. They talk to each other, and they'll talk to you if you listen. Trouble is, white people don't listen. They never learned to listen to the Indians so I don't suppose they'll listen to other voices in nature. But I have learned a lot from trees: sometimes about the weather, sometimes about animals, sometimes about the Great Spirit"
-Tatanga Mani (Walking Buffalo)
Amicus,
Thank you for posting this. I believe that those who adopt these spiritual paths are closer to God than the average Christian. The more I learn, the more I appreciate the connectedness of all life.
I am trying to learn to listen.