During the current election campaigns for president in the United States, women's health care and reproductive rights have been targeted by conservative candidates in an effort to appeal to evangelicals and religious extremists. Keeping in mind that in the U.S. a pregnancy can be legally terminated as long as the embryo or fetus is not considered potentially viable (not able to survive on its own or with artificial aid) outside the womb, what does the Bible say about abortion? Are the arguments of Jehovah's Witnesses and other religious fundamentalists sound in this regard?
What does the Bible really say about abortion?
by matt2414 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cyberjesus
nothing
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matt2414
That's what I thought. I couldn't even find anything convincing or reasonable in the "Reasoning" book. I have to admit, I would myself would have second thoughts about abortion, but I refuse to impose my will or personal beliefs on others.
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Terry
Why would people living in a Society literally thousands of years removed from Bible times want to consult such a book to determine
what is the best course of action in a life or death situation?
The same book advocates parents stoning their own children to death for cursing them, for crying out loud!
The same book authorizes constant sliting of the throat of animals and splattering their blood about an altar just so that a tribal deity can be appeased!?!
You just have to wonder what mistaken notion of personal irresponsibility would motivate any sane, educated person to swallow such counsel as
ancient tribal "wisdom" applicable to the year two thousand and twelve?
Only women can become pregnant. Women should be the one's who decide abortion policies.
Birth Control cannot replace SELF control.
Birth Control is not correctly named. A pill does not prevent BIRTH---it prevents CONCEPTION!
If conception is not prevented then a life begins growing which will result in a live birth.
All the PREVENTION a responsible person could exercise would take place WAAAAAY before it comes time to put the fetus to death.....you'd think.
But, our children are not taught by sane parents who are well-informed and morally educated by anything other than SUPERNATURAL superstitions!
What do we expect?
Society which cannot exercise self-control cannot , then, turn around and exercise post hoc moral controls. The only practical solution to unwanted births is a social agreement whereby childless families (who have been educated and vetted) can easily adopt these unwanted babies and rear them in a good and wholesome enviornment of love.
This does not happen, however.
The political structure is horribly chaotic.
The alternate religious charities are stricken with knuckle-dragging fundamentalist backwardness and red tape.
Sanity is hardly to be found anywhere in this discussion from the get-go.
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matt2414
"The same book advocates parents stoning their own children to death for cursing them, for crying out loud!
The same book authorizes constant sliting of the throat of animals and splattering their blood about an altar just so that a tribal deity can be appeased!?!"
This is so true. The "Reasoning" book says that abortion is wrong because God values life. Really? Which God is that? The one that does the aforementioned things? The God who -- according to the Witnesses -- will slaughter every human off the face of the earth with the exception of a handful of Witnesses? And according some you speak to, even some of them won't survive.
I like to use Bible texts in my arguments, because that's the only thing that some people will listen to. But oftentimes, these people don't even have a leg -- or a scripture -- to stand on.
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thetrueone
Why would people living in a Society literally thousands of years removed from Bible times want to consult such a book to determine
what is the best course of action in a life or death situation? Good point Terry
This is my exact sentiments I've tried to express on this forum many times.
The futility of trying to emulate the " identical " social moral standards established by a ancient civilization that existed thousands of years ago,
is bound to discernibility backward, unjust and impractical toward people who would try and govern themselves in are modern era.
Personally I think the way that most modernized countries have approached this issue is correct, giving to all relevant circumstances.
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Disillusioned Lost-Lamb
I agree with Terry, there is far too much gray area.
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Lore
Why would people living in a Society literally thousands of years removed from Bible times want to consult such a book to determine what is the best course of action in a life or death situation?
Because it contains timeless truths passed on to us from the creator of humans. . . if he created us, he should know what's best for us!
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matt2414
"Because it contains timeless truths passed on to us from the creator of humans. . . if he created us, he should know what's best for us!"
Lore, if the statement above is true, that would mean we would all have to know the Bible very well for it to be of any benefit to us. If people ignorantly pick and choose what they are going to believe, or don't try to understand the knowledge that God has that's "best for us," not one person can be benefited. We'd all be applying it in different ways according to our own agendas. That's why I requested Bible texts on abortion, to see if I am missing something that Bible fundamentalists may have discovered in the scriptures that says it's wrong. But alas, not one Bible text has emerged on this thread.
I mean, why would God forbid abortions, and then sanction what happened at 2 Kings 2:23, where boys taunted Elisha by saying, "Go up, you bald head." Because of their jeers, Elisha cursed them and two female bears came out of the woods and slaughtered 42 boys. I can't for the life of me understand on what grounds any sane entity would murder young people for their taunts. They could have told him to go f*** himself, and it still would not be grounds. It is inexecusable what happened to them. Why, even Jehovah's Witnesses indirectly blast Elisha when they claim that even murderers can become Christians with a home Bible study. Why couldn't these boys have been helped and rehabilitated?
I'm not sure I still believe the Bible, but it sure is a good read.
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Band on the Run
Unless I am wrong, the Bible is silent. I don't think the Bible would use the term. Abortions had to exist in the 1st century. I suspect the "Thou shall not kill" is applied to ordinary law. Abortion restriction is a relatively recent development in Western law. The Middle Ages church did not believe life started at conception. Rather, they used the term "quickened," to determine when a life had a mere potential. This was when the baby was kicking and very active. Abortion was not a legal harm, even then. "Quickened" only determined liability if a party kicked a woman in the abdomen while she was pregnant. It was to define the remedy for the loss of the fetus, despite harm to the mother.
Besides, we are not a Christian nation. In fact, great care was taken to make certain this country was neutral towards religion. The first const'n sent to the states had no restrictions on federal power, known as the Bill of Rights. Madison felt English common law rights were protected by the governmental structures in the const'n. The state ratifying const'ns delivered a clear message to the Federalist. An express Bill of Rights had to be added as amendments or there would be no const'n. The Establishment Clause is the clearest proof that we are not a Christian nation. The Bible is not part of our laws. Protestant groups fought with each other as to which one would have power. There was no clear consensus. Rather than lose to another group, the religious groups endorsed the solution that no one would have power. Certainly, our traditions fall within the Judaeo/Christian spectrum. Tradition is very different from law.
If religious groups don't want women to have abortions, they have moral power. The abortion rate would plunge if no Catholic women received abortions. It seems very lazy to enforce by law what you can enforce by God.