by ianao 22 Replies latest jw friends
Everybody,
Ianao is not going there as a dewey eyed novice. If you read all of his writings here you would understand that he is very well versed in everything that they teach, probably better than than the rank and file that will great him at the door. I think he wants to experience what it is like to meet these people that he has read about. I understand his curiosity and I have no fear for his safety. He is a very strong, intelligent man.
Ianao,
You're probably not going to see much at the first meeting except a booooooring couple of hours, and JW's bugging the hell out of you before and after the meetings, telling you how clean and pure and wonderful and wholesome and lovely and great and saved "God's Organization" is. You'll have go to several meetings before you see the repetative nature of them. But by then, depending on how well informed about the WTS you are, it might be too late. Many a guilt trip will be laid upon you to dedicate yourself to Jehovah, to join the ministry school, to knock on doors, to sacrifice education and normal life, to do your utmost to serve the God(WTS). But guess what, it's never good enough. Oh, they'll tell you to do your best, and that's good enough. WRONG! Every once in a while there will be a story in the Watchtower or at a meeting or assembly where a family sells their house and moves to a dangerous area to serve "where the need is greater". How will you feel when you just bought a house and started a family and a good paying job, and only put in 10 hours a month in the "field ministry"? Are you going to be stressed over the 5 meetings a week, studying the publications the night before each meeting, including door to door work? What if you find a mate that doesn't want to be a JW? Now you have to balance all the JW crap with your "unbelieving" mate.
Sounds pretty inviting so far, huh? Just read the stories about df'ing, blood, changing policies that have caused major misery and death. Oh, and don't forget the threads and articles on pediphile activity being swept under the rug.
How many prospective JW's actually do the research necessary to see the WTS for what it is? Have you noticed the WTS's flip flop doctrine policy? It's called "new light". That's why third world JW convert populations are growing, and their converts are decreasing in the western world.
Most of the people ARE nice. I miss a lot of them. But handing my life over to the likes of the WTS is not worth keeping friends at the hall. They make you diss your friends and family going in, and they diss YOU going out. How wonderful.
TR
TR,
Everthing you said is so true and so well stated. It so sad and so true at the same time. I don't think our friend Ianao will fall into that trap. He is well versed in what they teach and I think he is very wary of the trap. He is in no way new to this subject. He is a very savy man.
TR, it is too bad, but too true the acid hatred they bring out in us, for what they have done to us. We try to be kind so that we can help others, but underneath their is a raging fury. Maybe that is good. Maybe that's what keeps us going.
Ianao,
I say go for it! I just wish I could be there if you got into any scriptural discussions with the "big cheeses". I just read your post on the 607 issue. Too Cool
P.S. If you do go, we want a full report!!!
GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY!
OKIE DOKIE!
Did not mean to cause such a fuss! phew!
thinker's wife: If I ever do go, I will give a full report. Also, any scriptural differences would fall on deaf ears, as it already has to a VERY intelligent rank and file JW. STOPTHINK!
larc: I am blushing, and I am very said that you've been hit by the big snowball you call my intellect.
TR: Thank you for your lengthy post. I'm glad I'm communing with people who care enough to give warning. I hope you've benefited from your post though, because it sounds like you got a lot off of your chest.
Scorpion: Thanks for the warning.
Gozz: Thank you for your unique insight into this. What you say about older folks regarding things being as just another religion is interesting, to say the least. Unfortunately, my interest would be the structure of the meetings. True it would be nice to meet the people on a personal level, but I DO know from personal experience that discussing anything but everything that is only TRIVIAL with a JW is like talking to a brick wall. I do not consider 'church' a social affair (which is why I do not attend xtian churches.)
mommy (last but not least): Thanks for the clarification. I know that when I'm talking to a JW, I am really talking to a watchtowerite, or a member of the borg, as some put it.
Most of the comments raised here are at the Org, not the robotic rank and file. I don't think your words were harsh, as they were directed at the heads (who are responsible).
Also thanks for the anology, it hits home (re: the waitress.)
AND FINALLY!
To Jonathan:
Good friend, if you are reading this thread, do you truly see anyone that you can call 'demonized' or appostate?
You know as well as I do that a BIBLICAL appostate is one who hears of the Christ and his message, then denies it as true. An appostate to the GB is NOT an appostate to the Bible. These are good people!
I don't have demons coming into my home and haunting me because I am talking to NORMAL PEOPLE.
Some of these people like trevor and TR are bitter, and with good reason. You did read the posts didn't you?
Others, such as mommy, are just as loving and caring as any 'good' sister in your congregation.
Jonathan, you know how computers work. The only viruses they carry are malicious programs. You tell me that superstitions are silly, and I agree. (YOOO HOOO! YOU are superstitious on this issue!)
Read others' experiences on this website my friend, you will see that it is full of people that are HURTING.
I am not going to lie to you, you are going to read about some who have strayed from Jehovah God's word, but remember:
THESE WERE DEVOUT JWs!!!! IN SERVICE, AT MEETINGS.
LOOK AT WHAT THE SOCIETY HAS DONE TO THEM!!! THEY DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE FOR GOODNESS' SAKE! They should have been counceled and cared for, as ANY good sheppard (sp?) would do. (Remember what Jesus did?) Who was the prime EXAMPLE!? But No! They are shunned and ignored, instead of ROUNDED BACK to the straight an narrow path. Repeat offenders? Some, maybe. But we are BORN INTO SIN. What was Jesus' sacrifice for? Remember the two-fold promise?
Ask them why... You will find it all has to do with the structure of the religion itself. Sure many of the ideals are scriptural, but !#@$!@#, the GB calls themselves the Faithful and Discreet, they are Not Jehovah God, and they are not Jesus Christ! They should not do so, for IN doing so THEY ARE PLAYING GOD!!!!! This is exactly what 'christendom' does Jonathan.
The FEAR involved with following God is imposed by God himself, not fear of losing family and friends. Remember the TRUE God fearers in the OT? JEHOVAH GOD is to be feared and revered!!!
Read these posts Jonathan. Look at others' points of view. You will see why people slam the door in your face. You preached to me time and again for so long that Jesus was NOT God, so why don't you wake up and realize that the society is not God!!!!!! You have elsewhere to go! Read galatians, 1 & 2 Timmothy, the OTHER HALF of Ephesians. These scriptures apply to YOU too. If they didn't, then YOU would not have been baptized for YOUR sins. Period.
Agape
Ianao,
(btw I'm not an optimist either;P)
All I can add is personal observations and comments. I went to the KH last night because I didn't want to fight with my husband about it. Though I made it clear I didn not want to be there, all it did was re-enforce to him that I still "had faith in the truth." It didn't matter how much I protested- my coming was enough.
During the meeting, a local needs part was given on "is the truth becoming burdensome." The elder giving it said that it becomes burdensome if there is too much else in your life. That because the fds "is appointed by Jehovah and Jesus is the head of them, all of our meetings and schedule is approved and expected from Jehovah"
The rest of the meeting was "pioneer, pioneer, pioneer." It just happens to be the new CO's visit, and all he preached about was more service.
There was the "we are separate from the world" quotes mostly given by a crooked elder my husband works for (that's not hypocritical is it??) and the usual things covered at the meetings.
During the meeting I felt evil and decietful, after it I felt confused and doubtful. All that was going through my head were what if's. And they haven't stopped since. I told my husband point blank, I did not want to be a witness. I told him I have doubts that have destroyed my faith. I told him I want to be selfish, and I don't want to live for Jehovah. I told him nowhere in the bible did I see 5 meetings a week as a must. I told him I didn't want to go out in service, and I certainly didn't want to pioneer. I told him that I didn't see how a god that expected willing devotion would be please that I went so begrudgingly. I told him I when I prayed, I felt like I was praying to the wall. I told him I didn't WANT to live forever anyway.
You know what I got in response?? That I was imperfect, and that my depression causes me to say these things. That since I've been so negative my whole life, of course I was going to feel this way. That Jehovah was happy with me because I attended even though I didn't want to. That I didn't want to live forever in THIS system. That our marriage will get stronger if we are just regular in attendance. That I will have friends if we just start getting to more meetings and out in service. That he loved me, and was thankful I came.
Now, ianao, our situations aren't the same. But all i know is that after going last night, i am even more lost than before. The what if's and the " u are falling into satan's trap" got louder.
Going only prolongs the agony, so if u don't want to go to the KH- DON'T.
Moody,
My mother and father has been in this type of relationship for 35 years. I think my dad kind of Love her, but his love is prerequisite of her service to the WTBTS. He has promised her new cars, furniture, if she goes to the meetings. He will take her to a fancy restaurant, if she goes out in field service. He even marks up her Watchtower, so she can answer. Oh and when she does comment, you should hear him - throwing the praises on her. It's funny as I think about it, but is so pathetic.
The same for situation for my siblings and I. It's 5 of us - 1 is an active JW; I'm inactive; one bro. never baptized and very opposed; 1 is disfellowshipped and 1 is a pentecostal minister. When we all go home to visit, he is so absorbed in us all attending. He will take us all to dinner. Oh and by the way - we can't just attend, we must LOOK WONDERFUL, so if that mean he will pay for us to go to the hairdress, or buy the kids new suits (they must wear suits).
Well I no I'm getting away from my point. Which is .... what I take from his behavior is that he does not give a RATS A** as to how we really feel. He is just so SELFISH AS to how he feels and CARES MORE for the SO-CALL FRIENDS than his family.
So I always question - DOES HE LOVE US? And now I know I have come to the conclusion - HE DOES NOT EVEN HAVE A CLUE WHAT LOVE IS.
Happy to be Free (Me)
ianao
LOOK AT WHAT THE SOCIETY HAS DONE TO THEM!!! THEY DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE FOR GOODNESS' SAKE!
Naw, not all of us. I just don't believe that the Bible's message is accurately represented by the apostate, Pharisaical WTBTS. If that statement sounds harsh to anyone who chances to read this, I intended it to be. I'm willing to defend my choice of adjectives. I'm rereading the NT again. This time with an open mind. It's interesting to begin to understand what true "Christianity" really is.
I have JW friends that I respect and miss. I have thought about going back to a meeting. I would go to the Sunday Meeting. I'd arrive early and possibly stay late. My sole purpose in going would be to say goodby to some of the people that I still care about.
I think you should take your JW friend up on his offer to attend a meeting. Why not? Thinking you'll be trapped into something you'll always regret is like saying that a faithful JW will become an apostate by visiting this site. I don't mean to challenge or offend those who have offered contrary advice. You have spent a lot of time investigating this religion. Spend a little more and satisfy any curiosity you have. If you decide to, please share your observations with us. I suspect most of us will grin, and nod our heads knowingly, as we read your commentary.
Hello MoodyBlue.
I told my husband point blank, I did not want to be a witness. I told him I have doubts that have destroyed my faith. I told him I want to be selfish, and I don't want to live for Jehovah. I told him nowhere in the bible did I see 5 meetings a week as a must. I told him I didn't want to go out in service, and I certainly didn't want to pioneer. I told him that I didn't see how a god that expected willing devotion would be please that I went so begrudgingly. I told him I when I prayed, I felt like I was praying to the wall. I told him I didn't WANT to live forever anyway.
This really is sad. I guess another has fallen off the tacking sailboat, without a safety jacket. I would pray that Jehovah give you guidance if I felt worthy to reproach him myself. I feel your pain.
You know what I got in response?? That I was imperfect, and that my depression causes me to say these things. That since I've been so negative my whole life, of course I was going to feel this way. That Jehovah was happy with me because I attended even though I didn't want to. That I didn't want to live forever in THIS system. That our marriage will get stronger if we are just regular in attendance. That I will have friends if we just start getting to more meetings and out in service. That he loved me, and was thankful I came.
Well, I am no psychologist, but it sounds like your husband is in a bit of denial. On the other hand, he also seems to love you very much, otherwise he would not have listened to you. Mrs. Ianao could take some lessons. erm, nevermind).
I am sorry that his mindset is on "keeping you busy". (Re: meetings, etc.) From what I can see, it is probably all he knows to do. I will try not to say much else, because in HIS eyes he is putting God over EVERYTHING in his life. Unfortunately, it is yet more evidence that JW's liken their society to God.
Just remember Moody, God is not doing this to you, it's the society. Your faith in the society had dwindled, that DOES NOT mean your faith in Jehovah has to dwindle.
Edited by - ianao on 17 January 2001 14:44:17
