Now that Rick is gone......

by outsmartthesystem 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  darthfader

  hmmm... hollow victory, im afraid...
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  OnTheWayOut

  Rick is gone? We will miss him.

  

  OOPS, that's the mayor of Buffalo, NY.
  
  ....and OOPS, nobody will actually miss him. I misspoke.

  NEVERMIND
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  garyneal

  His site is up.
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  Violia

  Rick's site is alive and well . The interview with Steven Unthank was very good.
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  garyneal

  Honestly, I don't know what there is so much hatred directed towards Rick Fearon.
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  outsmartthesystem

  Garyneal - it isn't so much hatred (at least from me) as it is frustration. The Watchtower paints all "apostates" to be crazed, lying lunatics that push anti-witness propaganda....when the truth of the matter....is that we are critical thinkers that have discovered the fraud that IS the Watchtower and we urge people to do their own honest research and decide for themselves whether or not the Watchtower is legit.

  Unfortunately people like Rick give credence to the image that the Watchtower paints
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  sammielee24

  I don't understand all the anger either. If you don't like what he has going on - don't listen. It's that simple. One guy like Fearon is only one guy and really does nothing to change the attitude the society paints of apostates - if he disappeared tomorrow, they would still think the same thing. This board could be said to give credence to their thinking of apostates - and so what? A person who is thinking outside the box, will come here and silently observe and listen...they are 'thinking'. Give them the same credit if they choose to listen to Fearon. It's how newly ejected or fading JW's start the path to their own way of thinking.......choice, opportunity - learning that all they read is not true, some of what they hear is, but making their own choice is paramount to their growth. sammies
• 

  Dogpatch

  outsmartthesystem says,

  Unfortunately people like Rick give credence to the image that the Watchtower paints

  While I may not like Rick's style, we are not a replacement organization that tries to create an image of a united front. I see this all the time on the board. No offense, but I think that people coming out should learn to live in the real world and realize that once you are freed from mind control, why should we use the very same lie that the WT uses, that they are all in unity in belief?

  While we are all here because of our common interest in the Watch Tower, that is about the only thing in common among all of us. Not everyone wants to put on a facade of unity to make Witnesses or the WT org. think we are a united front. We aren't, and many of us are still Witnesses and believe certain things they teach. It takes a good education and learning the art of discernment to determine the motives of the individual writer, and it is good to see it from the thousands of perspectives on this forum.

  No one in the world believes exactly the same way I do. I'm glad, because that's scary - maybe they believe what I may say because my style jives with theirs. Or, maybe they see my name and automatically strive to discredit me no matter what I'm saying. That's why my personal MO is to learn to love people more and yet believe their mental ramblings less.

  On a small board, or when people are isolated from opinions or styles different than theirs (like in the WT), there should be a criticism of something said that is wrong, or hateful towards another. Otherwise people will often just accept it as truth. But on a big board with thousands of posters just waiting to say their part, one will only go away still believing the lie because they need to believe it for some unknown reason in their primal lives. Some people will never be convinced about evolution, genes, memetics or other matters simply because their peeps or the organization or church they now belong to doesn't believe it. Also, it may undermine their own "established" world view. Uncertainty is a bitch.

  I look beyond the politics and see the person's motives if I can. If they are still hurting from their past experience in a cult, they should not be writing hateful things until they heal or are counseled by a cult specialist. The exception would be the exposure of lies and falsehood and policies that are bringing misery upon others. I don't think that of Rick at all, I think he is just a good-hearted man with a cheesy carnival style. Hey, I have my own corny okie personality but that's mostly to keep you from getting bored, and to add a little humor. It is not fake... that is the real me. I'm a country boy raised by okies who are a great delight to be around, if only because of their humor. Who says I have to belive everything they say or stomp their style, because it is "harmful to our cause"? Read Farkel's blogs to see his own style, but it enlightens!

  I may be a Christian but I am not an inerrantist and never was, because it is a man-made teaching. I always believed in evolution, because I studied paleontology and geology when I was a kid in grade school. I never believed in a literal hell in spite of very clear evidence that it is rife in the New Testament. I could never worship a god that was really more of a devil than the devil!

  Step outside of the world of American evangelical or fundamentalist world views and notice that Americans are pretty unique in bending the Bible to fit the teachings of Hal Lindsay, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, and so on, ignoring the rules of interpretation that should be followed every bit as much as science often uses double-blind tests to prove or disprove a matter. That's why early on I learned to take American Bible Commentaries with a grain of salt. Yet when you read the real scholars, like Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament, you will find European (especially German) Bible scholars and many others treat the Bible as any other historical books, yet they claim to be Christian. So do I! Like many seminary graduates, they come to the inevitable conclusion that the world does not come with a nice theologically tight world view. How could it, when Bible scholars argued for 300+ years as to what belonged in the Bible and what didn't, and eventually it was really a matter of voting and/or "the boss" making a policy decision as to what it "right" or what is "wrong" to believe. While we castigate the WT for "voting" on what is "current" or "new light" every week, it is simply the way we are - to want absolutes.

  Honest scholars will show the dirt and weirdness of some things in the 66 books we call the Bible alongside the beauty and eternal truths it contains. They know it was written by mostly well-meaning men. But motives do not make what they say right. Politics is the most common deceiver in the matter. The fight for souls.

  Bible scholars who have had a formal education in seminaries are less swayed by charismatic, sensational books with no scholastic substance and many circular arguments. Yet they are used to teach in seminaries across the world, instructing the pastors and religious leaders of tomorrow. But they know that if they tell the WHOLE truth, underwear and all, they will lose their job and there will be less Bible teachers in the world. They have gone down the rope bridge too far to turn back, out of fear they will be tossed off the bridge if it starts swaying. That is what happened to me in 1993 when I quit pastoring my own little church in Manhattan Beach. You can read the letter that has been on my site since 1992 that explains my reason for quitting the pastorage. I was never paid for that service, either, I did it for free for 3 years.

  IMMEDIATELY the most prominent of JW ministries and book sellers in America with many branches of his organization set out to discredit me, by calling all of his branch leaders on the phone and telling them not to have anything to do with me! The person who printed his books for him started telling people I was WORSE THAN THE DEVIL because of my disbelief in inerrancy, and not to have anything to do with me.

  Didn't hurt me a bit as a ministry. Nowadays his is virtually unknown, and even most of his former colleagues dropped association with HIM for being so narrow in his viewpoint of other variations of belief on certain matters. Yet they are still my close friends! He was no longer welcome to speak in some evangelical circles anymore. Yet, he and I we still communicate as friends, or at least for common purposes. I like odd friends because I like to study human behavior.

  That is why Freeminds was different while others came and went over the last 30 years. Many are still around and though may be retired, are more than happy to offer balanced advice and comfort and help. The ones like that which I know personally I put up on my site, WatchtowerWorld.org. They deserve recognition for the decades of work they did, and the grace and love they learned. Plus they are not Bible-toting fundamentalists - they just want to help! Looks like they also carry some of my style.

  I am not afraid of "heresies" or critics. For years in the early 80s while being a very active Christian, even going door-to-door, I had subscriptions to magazines like "Skeptical Inquirer" and read many books attacking the Bible. By this time I was freed from bondage from not having an answer to everything. I just accumulate all I learn and eventually strive to make intelligent decisions. Speaking and visiting hundreds of different churches also was a great education for me, as were trips to Greece, Israel and Egypt, and seeing all I could see that you would never believe if you just had a WT education. Hey, even being in the WT was one of the best innoculations against deception I could have ever received, especially being at Bethel for 6 years and reaching the highest levels of opportunity just short of being on the Governing Body. I learned quickly that doctrines are the vomit of men's minds in many cases. In the case of Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz, I had the perfect opportunity to see it all in action. New doctrines and policies were almost always based on their own ideas of how to govern millions of relatively uneducated "sheep." Punishments towards disssenters or those not "like-minded" were accomplished by devising "new light" in the form of new policies and doctrines. Example: Rutherford got rid of all the undesirable elders by saying they were no longer elders, but he designated the ones he wanted to keep or add as "congregation servants." Thus all had to be RE-APPOINTED, and you can bet Rutherford had a list of those elders and "troublemakers" he would never re-appoint!

  That is why if you study long enough, you will notice that some teachings are simply unfalsifiable due to their claims not being able to be proved or disproved, like speaking in tongues, miracle healers, and so on. So some things we will never really have a complete answer to in our minds. But I learned what was NOT true, because I could simulate the same miracles once I watched the frauds. The law of parsimony demanded that I rethink some matters. Yet I never felt guilty for any of my thoughts, because if God was not powerful enough to read my honesty in such matters, then he was not a god. I have always felt I was "saved," even in the WT. I simply never worried about it! (Of course I must admit I was really "born again" at a Billy Graham Crusade when I was about 8 or 9 years old, and oddly enough since then I have never felt estranged from feeling communion with God.) Yet I am a naturalist as well.

  I got my policy of "love men more but believe them less" from the Bible, reasearching history, and personal experience.

  Why not love Rick more and believe him less?

  Randy Watters

  
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  wannabefree

  Randy
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  botchtowersociety

  I nominate the above for post of the year.

  BTS