Xena,
Are you feeling OK? You asked a whole series of questions for those who are ex-elders, and none of the questions related to sex. Conduct unbecoming to an apostate?
Tough Question for ExElders...
by Xena 34 Replies latest jw friends
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sf
Now, how about you ex elders who answered that question, answer mine too:
As a "disfellowshipping elder", did you EVER once utter to the disfellowshippee that "jehovah will no longer hear your prayers or cries for help. Only Satan can now"?
If you never said it like this directly or verbatim, HOW did you say this to them? What did/ do elders say re: the prayers that you utter AFTER being "cast out"? And how did you feel AND think about saying such to a child who had been disfellowshipped?
Thank you, sKally
If man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-sKallyWagger
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SixofNine
Skally, why not go ahead and explain yourself? Perhaps no one has answered because they don't understand what the hell you are talking about?
I can't help but think that it is unlikely that very many elders ever told anyone that. I don't know of too many witnesses who believe that, if it was ever taught. I further speculate that you either where told this yourself, or heard of someone being told this, or have come across a WT quote intimating this. In any case, if it was ever taught, it was not taught prominently.
I guess I'm just asking, whatever are you on about?
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ThiChi
"As a "disfellowshipping elder", did you EVER once utter to the disfellowshippee that "jehovah will no longer hear your prayers or cries for help. Only Satan can now"?"
Nope. Why say someting like this? You wanted them to come back......
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Pork Chop
"The first time you disfellowshiped someone was there regret? sadness? or a sense of justice?"
Yes, there was a lot of regret but also a sense of justice because we'd really tried to help this individual for months and after multiple cases of adultery there just wasn't a whole lot else we could do.
Did you have doubts as to your qualifications to be making this decision?
No doubts in this particular case. The evidence was very clear cut, confession as well. In my experience most cases involved confession and so there wasn't much doubt as far as the sin involved. In some case it was difficult to know how to help the individual involved, or to know whether they could be helped. I can only think of a couple of cases that ended up in disfellowshipping, always tried real hard to do something else.
Were you nervous, was there any doubt in your mind at all that this was the right decision?
Wasn't nervous, felt it was the right decision, still felt bad for the individual. Most elders that I know feel like they lost the battle when they disfellowship someone.
When it was over did you feel like God's Spirit had helped in the decision making?
Didn't really think about it in those terms
For SF.
"As a "disfellowshipping elder", did you EVER once utter to the disfellowshippee that "jehovah will no longer hear your prayers or cries for help. Only Satan can now"?"
Never said or thought anything like that in my life. Never heard of anyone else saying it either. In my experience most people are told that the way back is always open to them and hopefully they will find it.
"If you never said it like this directly or verbatim, HOW did you say this to them? What did/ do elders say re: the prayers that you utter AFTER being "cast out"? And how did you feel AND think about saying such to a child who had been disfellowshipped?"
Like I said. Never said it, wouldn't say it. Anyone that does say it is a Pharisaical fool. Frankly I'd probably take anyone that said something like that out to the parking lot and beat the hell out of them.
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sf
Let me clarify because I have no intentions of revealing anything about my experiences in that hell hole to anyone here, ever again. That was my first mistake four years ago...not realizing who I was dealing with. (ex-elders and other ranks) That's not the case now.
You don't need to know why I need an answer to this question.
Clarification for those who NEED it:
When, upon disfellowshipment, and during the J.C. meeting that is formed to determine the reason for such, what is told to that person SPECIFICALLY re: any prayers or utterances to "jehovah himself"?
Can "jehovah" hear my prayers? Is "satan" the one receiving them since "that day"?
What do elders and what did you ex elders say about this specifically?
Do and/or did you believe that once a person WAS "dissed", that prayers directly to "jehovah" were null and void? And did any of you make sure that the "dissed" person knew this well?
6of9....the ex and not-so-exelders know exactly what I'm asking, thus the thunderous silence from them. I wouldn't want to admit I'd ever say that to a child either; let alone a young adult. I don't know which is worse...spiritual abuse or physical? But this is just as scarring. I don't know or care what it speaks to you. But nice try in getting info about my life in that ROT. I've learned alot in the last few months on that subject alone. "REVEAL NOTHING TO ANYONE ANYMORE". That's MY "wall". And I'm proud of my "masonry". It's pretty solid now, asthe "cement" has dried nicely.
sKally, i hear you knocking, but you can't come in KLASS
If man was supposedly created in gods image, then.....holy krap...we're all doomed.-sKallyWagger
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Seeker
When, upon disfellowshipment, and during the J.C. meeting that is formed to determine the reason for such, what is told to that person SPECIFICALLY re: any prayers or utterances to "jehovah himself"?
Can "jehovah" hear my prayers? Is "satan" the one receiving them since "that day"?
What do elders and what did you ex elders say about this specifically?
Do and/or did you believe that once a person WAS "dissed", that prayers directly to "jehovah" were null and void? And did any of you make sure that the "dissed" person knew this well?
6of9....the ex and not-so-exelders know exactly what I'm asking, thus the thunderous silence from them
Another perfectly ordinary explanation for the "thunderous silence" is that, like me, they probably have never even heard of an elder saying such an awful thing, let alone saying it themselves. As I said, I never voted to DF anyone, so I cannot directly answer your question. But those elders that did DF people absolutely wanted the person to keep praying. They used to tell them, from what I was told, that it was more important than ever to keep praying.
You went through a horrible, abusive experience, from what I can tell. I know none of the details, and I don't want to know any of the details for that is your business and not mine. But there are bad elders in places and it sounds as if you had some. Not everyone does. I would be surprised to learn of many elders who told DFed ones what you evidently heard.
The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it doesn't mean everything is like that. If you are in a congregation that is caring, it can sound strange when someone talks about an abusive congregation. If you are in an abusive congregation, it can sound strange when someone talks about a caring congregation. Nevertheless, both types do exist.
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SixofNine
truly, madly, deeply.
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Sam Beli
Hello sKally,
Apparently this matter of prayer after Dfing is very important to you; and you must have been hurt by someone or thing even since coming here. therefore I will respond.
I have never told anyone to not pray nor have I told anyone that if they did it would not be heard. IMHO prayer is a very personal thing and no one should presume to come between an individual and his/her creator. The JWs have many opinions about many matters and prayer is no exception. Rules about who can pray (men, but not women in men’s presence), etc. I have heard JWs criticize non JW ministers and priests and say or imply that their prayers are not heard. A JW caught in a crowd where a non JW prays usually will not bow his/her head nor say “amen.”
When it comes right down to it, JWs think that only their prayers are heard. However, they contradict themselves when they give “experiences” wherein a householder was praying for guidance just before a JW knocked on their door. That was one of the many “double-think” issues that troubled me many years ago and served as part of a long list of issues that finally lead to my departing from the WTS.
I’m not sure why the silence form others, unless I just don’t “get it” with respect to your question.
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Xena
I just wanted to thank everyone for their honest and well thought out answers. When you see someone confronted with this type of thing you like to try and get inside the minds of the people involved. lol the only problem is that ya'll are most likely not your "typical" elder types or you would still be JW's But I do appreciate your allowing me to see inside your minds on this matter! It has been very interesting, informatative and educational.
Skally sorry if this subject opened up some old wounds for you! If my friend gets d/fed I will certainly let you know if they say anything like that to her!
ROFL 144,001 don't worry it isn't permanent!