We all know that most JW have trouble quoting the Bible. However assuming they give scriptures, does it bother them that the scriptures say something completely different from the point they are defending ? Do they check or just assume the WTS is right and it doesnt matter what it actually says ?
Do believers worry about stretching the truth when defending the troof ?
by mP 11 Replies latest jw friends
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TOTH
Some have in my experience and have flat out refused to lie to defend the troof. My dad was one, rest his soul. He called the wt on their bs many times and NEVER made excuses for them at a door or anytime in life.
OTHERS however are like snake oil salesmen. I had a return visit with a pastor from the Open Bible Church many years ago and I could not undo his ideas with the Bible. I took one elder with me and the pastor threw him out of his house because he caught him in several outright lies. When I told my dad he said he would go with me. We talked with the guy and he shook my dad's hand and mine when we were done. He appreciated my courage for returning and realizing the troof was not defendable with lies or the Bible. He told my dad that the LORD loves a man who understands the truth and sticks to it as he understands it. Sadly my dad passed away still locked into the borg. My hope is that if there is a god that he reads hearts.
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bigmouth
We all know that most JW have trouble quoting the Bible
Actually, my experience has been that the Witnesses are more than usually capable of quoting the scriptures.
However, their understanding and application of it can be another matter altogether !
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Black Sheep
My family has no scruples whatsoever when they need to defend the Watchtower or their reasons for remaining members.
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talesin
I haven't talked to a lot of them, but of the ones I have, some lie outright, and others are in denial - it's like a steel door slides over the face, which becomes a mask that defensively spouts WT quotes.
tal
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mP
MP
We all know that most JW have trouble quoting the Bible
BIGMOUTH
Actually, my experience has been that the Witnesses are more than usually capable of quoting the scriptures.
However, their understanding and application of it can be another matter altogether !
MP
Sorry what i meant is they can only give a few quotes and are in real trouble to back real doctrine without a publication, like 1914, the generation etc.
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bigmouth
Ah, point taken.
I never met a Witness that could zig zag between Isaiah, Zechariah, Revelation and the rest to explain the 70 weeks of years, the 2520 days, the 3 1/2 times without a WT publication opened.
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blondie
jws can lie to people the WTS deems not entitled to the truth.
*** w92 12/15 p. 22 Why Is It So Easy to Lie? ***
A lie is defined as “1. a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive . . . 2. anything that gives or is meant to give a false impression.” The intention is to cause others to believe something that the liar knows is not the truth. By lies or half-truths, he strives to deceive those who are entitled to know the truth.
*** w09 6/15 pp. 16-17 pars. 5-7 Speak Truth With Your Neighbor ***
5 Yet, what did Paul mean when he said that we should speak truth with our neighbor? Speaking truth involves sharing information that is factual, free from any deceit. True Christians do not twist or misrepresent the facts so as to mislead others. They “abhor what is wicked” and “cling to what is good.” (Rom. 12:9) In imitation of “the God of truth,” we should strive to be honest and forthright in all our dealings. (Ps. 15:1, 2; 31:5) By choosing our words carefully, even embarrassing or uncomfortable situations can be tactfully resolved without resorting to guile.—Read Colossians 3:9, 10.
6 Does being truthful with others mean that we must disclose every detail to whoever asks us a question? Not necessarily. While on earth, Jesus demonstrated that some people are undeserving of a direct answer or of certain information. When hypocritical religious leaders asked him by what power or authority he performed signs and miracles, Jesus said: “I will ask you one question. You answer me, and I will also tell you by what authority I do these things.” When the scribes and older men were unwilling to give an answer, Jesus said: “Neither am I telling you by what authority I do these things.” (Mark 11:27-33) He did not feel obligated to answer the question in view of their corrupt practices and faithless example. (Matt. 12:10-13; 23:27, 28) Similarly today, Jehovah’s people need to be on guard against apostates and other wicked men who use trickery or cunning for selfish purposes.—Matt. 10:16; Eph. 4:14.
7 Paul likewise indicated that some people may not be entitled to receive a full or complete answer. He said that “gossipers and meddlers in other people’s affairs” are “talking of things they ought not.” (1 Tim. 5:13) Yes, those who pry into the affairs of others or those who cannot be trusted to keep a confidence may find that others are reluctant to share personal information with them. How much better it is to heed Paul’s inspired counsel: “Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business.” (1 Thess. 4:11) At times, however, congregation elders may need to ask questions about personal matters in order to carry out their assigned duties. In such a case, our cooperation in speaking truth is much appreciated and is a great help.—1 Pet. 5:2.
*** w07 2/1 p. 6 Why Be Truthful? ***
What Is a Lie?
Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie. Why not? A dictionary defines a lie as “an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive.” Yes, lying includes the intention to deceive someone. Hence, to speak an untruth unwittingly—such as giving someone incorrect facts or figures by mistake—is not the same as to tell a lie.
Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer. For instance, suppose Manfred had been asked the same questions by an executive of another company. Would Manfred have been obliged to tell him everything? Not really. Since that executive had no right to such information, Manfred would have had no obligation to provide it. Of course, even in this case, it would have been wrong for him to tell a lie.
What example did Jesus Christ set in this regard? On one occasion, Jesus was conversing with some unbelievers who showed interest in his travel plans. “Pass on over from here and go into Judea,” they advised him. What was Jesus’ reply? “You go up to the festival [in Jerusalem]; I am not yet going up to this festival, because my due time has not yet fully come.” Shortly thereafter, Jesus did travel to Jerusalem for the festival. Why did he answer that way? They were not entitled to know the exact details of his whereabouts. So while Jesus did not utter an untruth, he gave them an incomplete answer in order to limit the possible harm they could do to him or to his followers. This was not a lie, for the apostle Peter wrote about Christ: “He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.”—John 7:1-13; 1 Peter 2:22.
*** w04 11/15 p. 28 “The Tent of the Upright Ones Will Flourish” ***
The faithful witness does not commit perjury when testifying. His testimony is not tainted with lies. However, this does not mean that he is under obligation to give full information to those who may want to bring harm to Jehovah’s people in some way. The patriarchs Abraham and Isaac withheld facts from some who did not worship Jehovah. (Genesis 12:10-19; 20:1-18; 26:1-10) Rahab of Jericho misdirected the king’s men. (Joshua 2:1-7) Jesus Christ himself refrained from divulging total information when doing so would have caused needless harm. (John 7:1-10) He said: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine.” Why not? So that “they may never . . . turn around and rip you open.”—Matthew 7:6.
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iCeltic
Your quotes are always spot on Blondie, I always enjoy reading them, thanks for posting.
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Phizzy
My experience has been the same as Black sheep's, my family and other JW's I have known for years have no difficulty in using outright lies ,half-truths etc
And all JW's take scriptures out of context and twist them, to be fair, a lot of the time they do not realise they are doing this, becuase they are fed a diet of doing just that by the WT , whom they assume have noted the context and would not twist a scripture, the naivety is to be pitied.