Was Hong Xiuquan the returned Christ for Rutherford!

by mP 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • mP
    mP

    Firstly most of us in the west are not aware of this very interesting character. A self proclaimed brother of christ who at one stage actually had many thousands and millions of followers in China only 150 years ago. The interesting point is his movment was about the time Rutherford was young and it did not completely disappear until the early 1900s. Was Rutherford thinking of Hong, when he was making up all the return of Christ presence stuff in 1914 ?

    This guy really changed the history of China, including the downfall of the emperor and was a major inspiration for Mao and the communist movement.

  • glenster
    glenster

    What I have on Russell's influences, predictions of the return of Jesus, etc.,
    is at the next two links. I don't remember Russell mentioning Hong Xiuquan, who
    was a self-proclaimed "Heavenly king" (just under emporer). He claimed to learn
    from a vision that he was Jesus' brother and was a cruel variation of a
    literalist religious leader who was more OT than NT.
    http://glenster1.webs.com/gtjbrooklyn1a.htm
    http://glenster1.webs.com/gtjbrooklyn1acont.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tian_Wang
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Xiuquan

  • mP
    mP

    glen:

    Russel maybe didnt proclaim anything about Hong, but Hong himself believed he was destined to establish Gods kingdom on earth. Unlike Russel, he actually started.

  • Bubblegum Apotheosis
    Bubblegum Apotheosis

    I can't follow your ideas on this thread, history is full of men who believed they were somebody special. The 1800s have lots of men who were aware of their spiritual needs, throughout the earth. Where did you come across this name, Sino-Tibetian history intrigues me. What do you know about ??? and Falun Gong?

  • mP
    mP

    @bubble

    The reason i pointed out Hong, is the events have many similarities with the idea of Armageddon and Jesus returned to earth to establish his kingdom. Im not saying i believe Hong was genuine, but he supposedly claimed to be a returned Jesus, and he did fight the evil establishment of the Qing Empire. Many false Messiahs and Christs have come and gone throughout history, but dear Hong must be considered to be easily the most successful and at one stage he had a lot of followers which must have counted in the millions. He fought for years and had entire regions of the country under his control. Perhaps Rutherford saw his reforms and struggles as the start of Armageddon in Revelation. Lets not forget Hong was fighting along with his son etc at the time Rutherford was predicting 1874 and then 1914.

    From what i can tell about Falun Gong and Tibetism is they are all Solar worship. The same symbols such as the ying yang etc are present. If you look at some of the Tibetan customs and holidays and beliefs we can see solar and jesus parallels.

  • glenster
    glenster

    I don't think Russell, etc., believed their own stuff, but Russell's pretense
    was that he was the only one re-establishing the original church. Killing
    people for failing to live by OT law wasn't something he'd want to identify with
    his program. Since Hong ultimately failed in battling the gov't, Russell probably
    didn't give it any more mind than for a failed prediction. Rutherford (by whose
    time of presidency Hong had long ago died) just tweaked Russell's stuff.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_deity
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#Religion
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus

    What connections do you interpret between Christianity and Falon Gong,
    "Tibetism," yin and yang, solar worship, etc.? (All I'm thinking of is
    pragmatically celebrating Jesus' birth on Saturnalia or such.) Are you
    thinking of the ideas also found in "Zeitgeist: The Movie"? A couple of the
    Internet debates I found about it are at the next links.
    http://carm.org/is-the-zeitgeist-movie-true
    http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3858&start=15
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie

  • Bubblegum Apotheosis
    Bubblegum Apotheosis

    Mp There are suppose to have been old Jews who made it into this region by 4th century or earlier. I will find that article, Hong has a very colorful history, interesting article!
  • mP
    mP

    glenster

    ive seen z the movie, but no i have seen other docos that superficially discuss tibetan and eastern religions. a look at japan or the land of rising sun makes it very easy to verify the center of their religion. many religions celebrate the equinoxes and/or solstices. these markers are very significant times of the year, which they needed to know in order to time crops and other activities.

    im not sure if younare aware but all major jewish holidays are also timed around these markers.'hannukah=xmas=winter solstice. passover=spring eq=easter all which celebrate rejuvination and birth as befits the beginning of spring. look at the other holidays and its easy too see the astrological connection.

  • mP
    mP

    bubble

    ive heard similar stories. the same thing happened to a roman legion who somehow got lost and went into service for the chinese emperor. the doco talked about how archeologists found writings about the tortoso - turtle formation that the romans used.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Hong Xiuquan was a remarkable person. He very nearly became the progenitor of new Chinese dynasty. If it had not been for the intervention of the West, he may well have destroyed the Qing dynasty. The Qing were from Manchuria - in the North of China, anc related to the Mongols and others that had been part of the Steppe people who have had more influence on world history than any other group.

    Funny thing, Yahweh never mentions them.

    And, (back to Hong) the western general that directed the push that brought an end to the Taiping, was General Charles Gordon, who (back in the UK) was nicknamed 'Chinese Gordon,' for his exploits in China. Curious, isn't it, that the only successfull indigenous Chinese version of Christianity was defeated by a general that read the Bible daily.

    Hong was a good Bible student (smile) if you read the regulations he imposed on his 'new' kingdom, you see the influence of the Bible everywhere.

    If you want to know more about him try and find a copy of Jonathon Spence's, "God's Chinese Son- The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of Hong Xiuquan."

    Many westerners went to visit the capital he established in Nanjing. Spence writes:

    " It is hard for Nanjing visitors not to be moved by the outdoor services ... in the centre of Nanjing, when a great crowd assembles on the Sabbath day, ... to listen to the two Taiping preachers appointed for that day. (They) ... address the throng in turn, one on the topic of a soldier's duties, love of family and attention to prayer, on on the reason for excluding traders from the city and on the need for charity toward the elderly and destitute."

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