Pre 1914 Utopia?

by Flat_Accent 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Flat_Accent

  Thinking back to all those talks I heard about the sign of the last days, one thing that many used as proof of Christ's presence was the dramatic changes, socially and politically, which all began in 1914. In the reasoning book, a few quotes are listed:

  "Looking back from the vantage point of the present we see clearly today that the outbreak of World War I ushered in a twentieth-century 'Time of Troubles'-in the expressive term of the British historian Arnold Toynbee-from which our civilization has by no means yet emerged. Directly or indirectly all the convulsions of the last half century stem back to 1914."-The Fall of the Dynasties: The Collapse ofthe Old Order (New York, 1963), Edmond Taylor, p. 16.
  "People of the World War II generation, my generation, will always think of their conflict as the great modern watershed of change. . . . We should be allowed our vanity, our personal rendezvous with history. But we should know that, in social terms, a far more decisive change came with World War I. It was then that political and social systems, centuries in the building, came apart-sometimes in a matter of weeks. And others were permanently transformed. It was in World War I that the age-old certainties were lost . . . World War II continued, enlarged and affirmed this change. In social terms World War II was the last battle of World War I."-The Age of Uncertainty (Boston, 1977); John K. Galbraith, p. 133

  Watchtower's vision of the World before 1914 could be considered a utopia. But is that true? I know Russell and others had been preaching the 'End Times' since the 1850's, but what did secular historians or social commentators make of the time they lived in? Has anyone got some good quotes?
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  sir82

  Well, it might have been pretty nice if you were a white European or American and weren't working 80 hours a week in a coal mine.

  It pretty much sucked for the 90% of the world's population in Africa, Asia, Russia, India, or South America.

  Even for the elites, it was far from Utopia. For example, anarchists were bombing cafes in France with the efficiency & frequency of Al Qaeda terrorists.
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  Phizzy

  1914 was a dramatic change, politically, socially and religiously. But pre-1914 was no Utopia.

  Look at the infant mortality rate, and the adult, not a long life by our standards. If you were ill, the Doctor would come, and make a pretty good fist of diagnosis, but he could only recommend the best care, he could do nothing, there were no drugs !

  O.K pain relief with "laudunum" (morphine) but treatment drugs only started to be available with Aspirin in the mid-1920's . Anti-biotics began to be used shortly after. All the terrific advances that we take for granted in medicine have come since Satan was cast down from Heaven according to the WT.

  Thank you Satan. Society has evolved social care and health care to such a degree that the pre 1914 person could not imagine it. We have taken millions out of starvation and poverty, admittedly we have a way to go globally, but many times the 1914 population are cared for and fed, pre 1914 it was the work house or starve.

  Child poverty and prostitution were rife in all the major cities pre 1914, in London one in six houses was a brothel (don't quote that one, thats from memory, but it was a high figure) showing how desperate times were.

  No, pre 1914 was a hard time for 99.9% , post 1914 things have just got better. The W.T presents a wrong view again, what a surprise.
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  TD

  Watchtower's vision of the World before 1914 could be considered a utopia. But is that true? I know Russell and others had been preaching the 'End Times' since the 1850's, but what did secular historians or social commentators make of the time they lived in? Has anyone got some good quotes?

  Following the Civil War in the U.S. there were a series of disease epidemics, crop failures and what they called, "Panics." Panics were wild oscillations in the economy which produced depression after depression. Union soldiers had to be stationed on trains headed back east to keep order. The winter of 1880-1881 was one of the worst in modern history. Rail service to a large chunk of the country ceased entirely and people starved. (Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote about that year in one of her books.)

  All of this can be Googled. Doesn't seem like Utopia to me....
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  bennyk

  Russell's readers felt things were so bad before 1914 that Zion's Watch Tower stated:

  " Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not bea mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain.

  " We see no reason for changing the figures-- nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. We see no reason for changing from our opinion expressed in the View presented in the WATCH TOWER of Jan. 15, '92. We advise that it be read again."

  (15. July 1894, p.226; Watch Tower Reprints p. 1677)
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  Disillusioned Lost-Lamb

  Ah 1914, the year the clouds turned from pink to white.

  The pre 1914 utopia is just a completely unsupported undocumented unconfirmed myth.
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  NewChapter

  Since Satan was cast to the earth, American women got the right to vote, segregation as outlawed, children labor laws went into effect, life spans have increased dramatically, fetal death rate has dropped, childhood illnesses have been eliminated, medicine has grown to astound us, television, computers, the internet, cell phones, awesome cars, . . .

  Yes---since Satan came down this dump, he cleaned it up cuz he wanted a decent place to party. We now live the high life.

  NC
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  wha happened?

  This touches on a conversation I had with Dagney recently. All this talk about how great it was until 1914. Well great for who? Women? Minorities? who? My wife agreed that as a black woman, she would have been less than a person back then. Having children? Guess who might make it through childbirth? U want overtime for working extra? or a break? or a day off? or go home? Sorry charley.

  It's criminal that the WT actually tries to paint this Utopian scenario that was ruined by Satan after he was hurled down. Yea he was hurled down alright. He landed at 100 Watchtower Drive, Patterson, New York, 12563
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  Lets Think

  As New Chapter and others have pointed out here is my take:

  As someone has been very interested in 1914 and it place in history here is my take. In 1914 everything changed (especially for all those the WT quotes) for the 1%, the very rich white folks. The very privileged lived in a pre1914 utopia. For everyone else it was hell. The social upheaval at the turn of century made life tough on those who oppressed; the oppressors were “the rich”. What was life like for the average American black in 1800’s (95% of black women work as domestics with almost no rights. Black men could not vote or hold any jobs in authority) What was life like for women. (no voting rights, no property rights, did not even have the right not to be beat) What was it like for children. (in the 1800’s children as young as 7 worked in coal mine and textile factories legally!) .. Life now for women, children, minorities the average working man is not a little better the pre 1914, It is 10,000 times better. The social upheaval at the turn of the century made for a much, much better world. Soldiers who marched home from WW1 said lets not take crap for titled, rich jerk officers anymore. Women and men started to stand up to the old ways,, a better world resulted. If you don’t think this is true study what life was really like in the 1800’s especially if you were a women or a minority.

  But there are those that say it is worse now look at divorce rates etc.. Women didn’t divorce then because they had nowhere to go, there were no good jobs for women, they had no rights to land or property , no right to even to their own children. Even if they were beaten daily, they could not do anything about it.

  It was legal in England to beat you own wife if she was out of line, as long as the stick was not too big.

  Since 1914 life expectancy has doubled, that sounds like a good thing,, that sort of is a bottom line thing how long do you live. Women do not die at childbirth the same, we do not die of minor infections etc, etc,,

  To sum up I quote PJ O’Rourke “for those who think the good old days are better I have one word “dentistry”
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  Zordino

  Pre 1914 Utopia? What complete nonsense! Can anyone say Dark ages? Even coming out of the Dark ages, the centuries that came after up intil the 20th Century have been brutal to say the least. the whole "before 1914 the world was so much better" BS is just another WT scam to justify their BS 1914 last days false prophecy. Its a Lie and anyone with even 2 brain cells can see that with a little reading. Some people will just believe anything because the WT said so and yah know, God talks through these clowns. Mind Control at its finest.