So, am I correct that the JWs observe the memorial on the 13th day of Nisan after sundown (Nisan 14 date)...while the Bible texts show passover to be observed on the 14th day after sundown (Nisan 15 date)?
Memorial on wrong day
by isaacaustin 18 Replies latest jw friends
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Leolaia
Nisan 1 is the first day of Nisan; Nisan 14 is the 14th day of Nisan.
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isaacaustin
Right leolaia, but the DATE changes at sundown? I guess I am trying to ask: Does the WT observe the memorial on the 13th day of Nisan after sundown??
The Biblical text says it was observed on the 14th day after sundown.
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Leolaia
Right leolaia, but the DATE changes at sundown?
Sure, but I don't understand why you say the "Nisan 14 date" corresponds to "the 13th day of Nisan after sundown". It corresponds to the 14th day of Nisan after sundown.
Does the WT observe the memorial on the 13th day of Nisan after sundown??
No. It observes it early on (what they believe to be) the 14th day of Nisan.
The Biblical text says it was observed on the 14th day after sundown.
The biblical text (concerning Passover, not the "Memorial") does not say that. The lambs were to be slaughtered on Nisan 14 and in the first century AD they were slaughtered in the afternoon, not the evening.
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Bobcat
James_Woods said: "only on passover day (a non-scriptural specification ..."
I agree with this statement.
Jesus simply said "keep doing this" Paul said "as often as" you do this.
And when discussing the Corinthian problems (1Cor 11:17-34) he said "when you come together... (for the Lord's Evening Meal)." There is no hint in any of that that this is a once a year memorial. If it was just once a year, you could easily describe the problems the Corinthians were having as poor prior planning for a once a year event. But Paul views them as ongoing moral faults.
On the one hand, the few directions given (for the Memorial) would allow for a once a year memorial view - or any number of times for that matter. But one has to wonder: Where in the NT is the direction for Gentiles to familiarize themselves with the Jewish calendar so that they can keep it on the proper day? - if thats when it HAS to be. "When you come together" and "as often as you [do this]" indicate a certain amount of autonomy on the part of the Corinthians.
In connection with the Christian view of the Passover, Paul said: "For, indeed, Christ our passover has been sacrificed. Consequently let us keep the festival (referencing the Passover), not with old leaven, neither with leaven of badness and wickedness, but with unfermented cakes of sincerity and truth." (1Cor 5:7, 8; Indicating, to me at least, that Paul saw the Jewish Passover as having a year round meaning for Christians. Coincidentally, the Society views the other Jewish festivals as having year round meaning.)
John (gospel, writing near the end of the 1st Century) mentions "Passover" 10 times. And 3 of those times refers to it as "the festival of the Jews." (2:23; 6:4; 11:55) That description of the Passover sounds like (again, to me) that there is some distance between Christians and this Jewish festival.
To me, this makes the whole Nisan 14/15 arguement moot.
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Bobcat
Concerning "as often as," the Zodhiates Greek Dictionary defines as "however often, as often as (1 Cor 11:25, 26), 'each time that you do so.' There is no implication of urgency or frequency. It rather means that each and every time you do so, no matter whether frequently or otherwise, ..."
Kind of like saying: "As often as you wash your car, you should use such-and-such soap." There is nothing in the phrase that implies any certain frequency.
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Bobcat
I should have put my conclusion in my first post above. The Society, in the early days, probably thought having a Passover Memorial made them Biblically correct and different from the churches. But now (in addition to that), it establishes the 'proper' pecking order, namely, "We, as the privileged enlightened class, partake. You, as the worker slave class, watch." (Compare Luke 17:7 - 9)
Having it just once a year means that everybody can then put it out of their minds afterwards. If they thought about it too much they might just start questioning things. (Compare John 6:53, 54)
By the way, in "Letters of St. Ignatius of Loyola", p.46 par.1, there is an interesting comment made on the bad effect reduced communion taking had on church goers. (Can be read on Google Books.)
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Leolaia
Oooh, here are more historical sources on the timing of Passover:
"And when the tenth day of this month is come, let the Hebrew men by families thus select unblemished sheep and calves, and keep them till the fourteenth day has dawned (epilampsei, from a root meaning "to shine forth", i.e. morning on Nisan 14), and then, in the evening (pros hesperan), make sacrifice; thus shall you eat them whole, the flesh and inward parts all roast with fire" (Ezekiel the Tragedian, Exagoge 175-180; written in the second century BC).
"And on the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight they will celebrate the Passover of Yahweh and they will perform sacrifice, prior to the evening sacrifice (l-pny mncht h-`rb) they will sacrifice it" (11QTemple 17:6-7; written in the second century BC).
"And after the feast of the new moon comes the fourth festival, that of the Passover, which the Hebrews call Pascha, on which the whole people offer sacrifice, beginning at noonday and continuing till evening (apo mesémbrias akhri hesperas)" (Philo of Alexandria, De Specialibus Legibus 2.145; written in the first century AD).
"Why is the Passover sacrificed at evening? Perhaps because good things were about to befall at night and because it was not the custom to offer a sacrifice in darkness, and for those who were about to experience good things at night it was not proper to prepare it before the ninth hour. Therefore it was not at random but knowingly that the prophet set a time between the evenings. That is the literal meaning. But as for the deeper meaning, this should be said. The true sacrifice of God-loving souls consists in abandoning an empty and visible splendor and attempting to change to the unapparent and invisible. Now the time of evening does not have a refulgent brightness, such as occurs at midday, nor is it darkened, although while day is near and close to night, it is dimmed to a certain extent" (Philo of Alexandria, Quaestiones in Exodum, 11; written in the first century AD).