What has helped you avoid the doctrine roundabout and forever chasing your tail?

by Fernando 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    I was a third generation born-in with no alternative reality, reference points or framework.

    For more than forty years I was taught that the highest stakes (eternal life) main game is played on the doctrine playing field (supremacist ethnocentrism). My eternal future apparently depended on which side of the trinity, hellfire and immortal soul doctrines I played.

    Apparently if I believed the Watchtower way, even if it changed, I was in "the faith" and "the truth". The same for legalism (supremacist self-righteousness attained by following the supposedly "right" but ever changing and inconsistent rules).

    Around 6 years ago, and for the first time in my life, one person asked me to explain what "the gospel" is in one word. Bit by bit I discovered (oddly enough in the Watchtower's own publications) that the gospel versus religion is the main playing field. I gradually learnt that Paul, Jesus and the prophets never obsessed over doctrines like the Watchtower (and other less virulent and less arrogant religious groups).

    Instead the "unabridged gospel" was everything to them.

    Paul had a lot to say about the priceless unmerited "free gifts" of IMPUTED righteousness (justification), IMPUTED holiness (sanctification), IMPUTED sinlessness (perfection), IMPUTED sonship (adoption), IMPUTED friendship (reconciliation), and IMPUTED eternal life (salvation).

    Although I'm not sure exactly how to understand some of Paul's seemingly moralistic comments, and those on women, these suggest to me that his struggle against religious baggage was ongoing as I imagine it is for any believer that previously spent time in the religious system.

    "Legalism" is only mentioned once in the entire Watchtower library. What an awesome article though that exposes the Watchtower Sanhedrin (GB), ruling religious clergy class and hierarchy (Pharisees) as spiritually blind, naked, confused, inebriated and insane apostates (unfaithful to God and his priceless gospel message of unmerited favour which all the prophets yielded to and obeyed).

    This article reads like a summary of ISOCF and proves that it is possible for many (like Ray Franz) to make a huge difference from within for a season and to leave behind a very useful legacy.

    I unfortunately was so badly nauseated and repulsed by the Pharisees and Sanhedrin that I was unable to stay a moment longer after the penny finally dropped (mid 2009) that as a group they were totally illegitimate and irreformable (from their father the devil). My handling of matters was also rather clumsy at the time and I was fairly freaked out too.

    A "Christ centred" and "gospel focussed" orientation as a simple Jesus follower is helping me avoid playing by religion's rules, in their game, and on their field.

    Now I hear two distinct and opposite calls (the two trees in Eden).

    I reject religion's call to "measure up" via self-righteous externalism (whitewashed graves). I yield instead to God's call via the gospel to "STOP and COME AS YOU ARE and BE REGENERATED and TRANSFORMED FROM WITHIN".

    Sorry for the wordy story, and thank you for reading.

    How are you managing to avoid getting bogged down in trying to unravel peripheral doctrines like the trinity (and other non salvation issues)?

  • anezthy
    anezthy

    What has helped me? I gave up on religion, anything to do with religion and now just enjoy my life without it. I hope that you will be able to do the same. Be Free...Just say'n....

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Easy.

    I was reading the gospels and came across a passage where Jesus curses a fig tree. Instead of glossing over it and going to the next passage, I subjected it to the same level of scrutiny I had been subjecting the WT to. It soon became clear that I was wasting my time looking for a god in this collection of ancient books, written in a foreign country, by people who I was in no way related to.

    I was only reading this book because I happened to be born into a cult that used it. That doesn't automatically grant it any status.

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    Just getting off the roundabout helps . . .

    There's just too much that's irreconcilable in the evolution of religion. A more dispassionate (otherwise known as secular), examination of religious history will give you a full frontal of the complete animal . . . a ravenous pest that sustains itself on the doctrinal roundabout.

    What you might find from within is simple and reliable . . . and not dependent on the lives of historical (or not) humans and their constructs. Pure human morality is the natural inheritance of every human born and is not complicated. The religious doctrinal roundabout only confounds and complicates, producing hate and conflict by distorting the natural inheritance.

    Think of it as the analogous "tablet on the heart". Everybody has one. It's only by removing this distorting human construct that it can be found and read in it's simplicity . . . and it has nothing to do with religious belief or doctrine.

  • exwhyzee
    exwhyzee

    After growing up in the TRUTH, I was fully convinced by Jehovah's Witnesses(without really checking) that other religions were totally wrong and were hated by God. Now that I've left the TRUTH, I no longer want anything to do with God, Religion or Religious People. I am calmer and more peaceful than I've ever been. If there is a God, I will do whatever it is he wants me to do, but he has to be clear about what he wants and I must be sure it's actually him that is instructing me and it's him that I'm serving. I almost can not bear to read some of the posts on here if they get too much into doctrine. I am fed up with discussing the Bible after a lifetime of agonizing over the significane or implied meaning of this or that scripture, are my sideburns too long, did I place enough magazines, am I whole souled enough, is the end right around the corner etc. I question everything I was ever taught about God and have re-evaluated my stand on just about every issue. I never had a chance to ask, How did we get here ... Why do we grow old and die etc. It was all force fed to me with one sided information that I wasn't allowed to question. Believe this or you're gonna' die kid.

    Maybe the reason God (if he exists) isn't clear about the big picture is because it's none of our business to know what the future holds for man or maybe we couldn't handle such information. All I know is that if there is a God, Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization will have a lot to answer for in terms of turning people away from him, harming individuals with their self imposed authority,breaking up families and condemning the faith of others and wasting peoples time as well as their lives.

  • anezthy
    anezthy

    @Black Sheep... I was always puzzled as to why Jesus would curse a poor little fig tree that out of fruit season. Why curse it? Was this the God of the OT?

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Quite simply by studying the bible and giving it a fair crack at proving itself to be what it claims to be: Gods word to mankind.

    It failed, repeatedly.

    Once you know HOW and WHY we have the bible we have today and WHEN and by WHO it was compiled and written and redacted and rewritten and ammended and altered and rewritten and how some books purportedly by Moses were actually written centuries later by the Deuteronomists around the 7th and 6th centuries BC to reflect a history they WANTED to have existed (but for which there is absolutely no archeological evidence) ....THEN and only then does it become clear we are victims of one of the greatest frauds perpetrated on mankind.

    Suffice to say I am no longer chasing my tail.

  • Jumba123
    Jumba123

    Hi, Everyone!
    I'm new here, i've been a lurker for a few weeks, i actually found this site accidently.
    Here is a little bit about myself, I'm 18 years old, I'm from the UK and I am a christian (non-jw).

    I wanted to reply to 'exwhyzee' :)

    This is my first post so i'm kind of scared, I don't know how people will respond to my post haha.
    From my observation, many of you guys know a lot more than I do in terms of doctrines and their origins etc. Anyways about me..

    My mother is a christian and from a young age she taught my siblings and I the bible using a childrens bible. She would read it to us at night during our bible study, it wasn't like the typical adult bible study, it was more like She'd read us the stories and ask us questions to see whether or not we understood the stories.

    I guess for me because of that I believed (and still do believe) that God is real. Back then I believed because it was what I was taught by my family.
    My mother never taught me about specific doctrines, she just taught me about God, Jesus and how much they love us ( people in general). She told me quite simply what it meant to be a Christian and how to accept jesus as my Lord and Saviour.
    My mum came to know God through experience, to many it would sound like a typical testimony where you are in need and suffering and BAM God shows up but that's exactly how it was. Since then God has continously poured out his love to her and us (her children) and it is quite evident ( for us anyways) that God is a faithful God.

    So from that young age till the age of around 15, My faith was almost borrowed ( from My mum).
    I won't go into too much detail as it is personal and I don't want to post it online but I am more than happy to explain it to people individually via email or whatever if you'd like.

    When I reached the age of 15, I realised that I needed God ( He was and is all I know, I suppose if i were brought up as a muslim for example i'd turn to allah) I remembered all that I was told about him, I remembered that He loved me just as I am because he created me. I remembered hearing that only he could save/help me. So i gave it a shot, I prayed and read a few verses from the bible here and there. If I am honest, I didn't really know the bible very well, I was able to recall bible stories and parables etc but those where the things I learnt at sunday school in the town we lived before. Even now I don't know the bible as well as many of you guys or as your sons/daughters who may be younger or a little bit older than me, but I am slowly learning.

    I guess i've come this far by faith as cheesy and naive(?) as that sounds. But its true, my walk with God is strengthened by experience. After reading some of the posts on here I am finally able to understand why on earth James 1 v 2 tells me to count it all joy. If it wasn't for personal circumstances and difficulties I know for sure that I would have given up on God ages ago or would have continued to say that He is real without actually believing it whole heartedly.


    I've read many things on here that has made me want to reply or to comment or whatever, but when push came to shove I couldn't mainly because I don't know as much as many if not all of you guys, In fact I've come to learn a thing or two here ( always checking my bible first though).

    Before I knew Jehovah witnesses personally, I thought that they were ''weird'' people but then when a friend converted and told me that what they believed is actually backed up by the bible, i was shaken and thought that they may be telling the truth after all. I agreed with some of the things JW's did/say, I mean I could see where they were coming from you know, if Birthdays and Christmas really are of pagan origin I could understand why they did not want to celebrate it etc. For me personally I thought that It's up to people how they want to serve God because at the end of the day we will all be held accountable for our own actions and how we chose to live our lives.
    I think and believe that 'Christianity' is a personal relationship with God yes there are rules that we should follow and those are Gods commandments which all sums up to loving each other and God. Other things are just guidlines and that it's up to you and your God as to whether you follow them word for word or not, His spirit that lives in you will direct your path.

    I feel like I'm preaching haha sorry. But exwhyzee, your post on here for some reason as weird and stupid as it sounds to you and to others reading really broke my heart especially when you said that you are calmer and more peacefull now since leaving the organisation,I'm glad that your free and feel more at peace. You also said that if there is a God,you will do whatever it is he want you do to. That part made me smile because it sounds as if you are still open to God.

    I am not writing to convert anyone or to tell anyone that i have the answers or whatever because I do not know everything. But I am fully convinced that I have and know the truth and that is Jesus Christ, you cannot and will not find the truth in any other thing or person but Him. To me he is the definition of the truth (John 14:6). And he himself said '' take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light''
    Learn from Jesus, him and him only and you will find peace ( philipians 4:7)

    I agree with what you said about God not being clear about the bigger picture, I mean he is God after all right?
    But you can find out if God is real or not yourself if you wish to do so, jeremiah 29:13 says that you will seek Him and you will find him IF you seek him with all your heart. Reading this and reading that to understand Gods ways and stuff is good but try praying, a simple prayer. Pray what is on your heart.

    The God I know is Love, yeah he has his angry side but he is slow to anger,there is nothing you can do to make him love you more or less as his love is unconditional. He doesn't like sin but he love us . You don't have to do anything special just come as you are and he himself will transform you. That's what I know and have experienced.

    It just saddens me that the organisation teaches that they are the only truth and so when people find out that it is not they turn away from God, i mean who could blame them. It's almost like they have no choice but to not be in the truth whether they are inside the org or have left the org.
    No Christian church be it Baptist, catholic etc is perfect I'm sure they all have Doctrines and ways that do not please God or that are not True thats why you should test everything with Gods word.

    It's taken me forever to write this, I'm sorry for the long post

    Love Jumba!

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Welcome Jumba123!

    Thank you for sharing your heart and perspective in such a reasonable and moderate way. This is good since humans can at times be hyper sensitive. You write and explain well.

    We're a mixed bag here at JWN, however most of us seem to be able to agree to disagree when we are coming from very different viewpoints.

    Yes, some are hurting so bad they may seem coercive and rude, but one can choose to ignore the melee when manners and common sense have left the room.

    Hopefully you enjoy your stay, interaction and journey, and even make a few friends.

    Greetings & blessings

    Fernando

    Queensland, Australia

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi Jumba. Welcome to the forum.

    I'm not a great fan of the idea of basing your religious beliefs on the culture of your birth. All the more so because I was born into a church that encouraged its members to treat its non-believing children badly. It could have been worse. Born in different circumstances I could be disappointing my parents by not blowing up Jews and Christians, or joining in the fun of burning witches and beheading heretics.

    anezthy.

    Analyse, analyse, analyse, analyse. If something doesn't make sense, sometimes it is simply because it doesn't make sense. Does the fig tree curse make sense at any level? Can Jesus' action be justified in any way? Compare the two versions of the story. Think about the implications of Jesus' actions for other people (do this for the piggy drownings too).

    If you can think of some sensible reasons, I would love to hear them.

    Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

    Cheers

    Chris

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