Apostasy my ass!

by Glander 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • steve2
    steve2

    Their parents and their culture influence them to become something else.

    exactamundo!

    Notexactamundo at all! Most kids look up to their parents as 'gods' and model their eventual image of god on one or other of their parents or both.

    The sociologist Durkheim suggested that the reason religion has such a strong hold on human societies is because it mirrors the kinds of top-down hierarchical relationships that exist in human societies (boss and worker, slaveowner and slave, king and subjects, etc). Of course, one's religion is not ordained but as Richard Dawkins asserts, an accident of birth.

  • Glander
    Glander

    Notexactamundo at all! Most kids look up to their parents as 'gods' and model their eventual image of god on one or other of their parents or both.

    LOL! what a load of psycho babble!

  • steve2
    steve2

    LOL! what a load of psycho babble!

    In what way Glander? Durkheim was a sociologist so shouldn't that be "socio babble"? Perhaps my phrasing wasn't the most helpful so can I attempt to explain it with fewer techincal words:

    Durkheim tried to understand why humans so readily assimilated religious beliefs into thier thinking at a very young age. Among his conclusions, he asserted that, from the infant's perspective, adults literally do everything for them, supporting and protecting them, keeping them alive and healthy etc. Children are at the mercy of their parents in the first instance and any other adults who also provide care.

    He drew a parallel between the infant's utter dependence on its parents and, in turn, the parents utter dependence on larger society in which they exhibit the same kind of belief that there is 'something' greater than them. In all stages of human society, beliefs in supernatural forces that either protect or endanger them are evident. The parallel between the child's dependence and the adult's dependence on something larger and bigger has since been noted by many, many others - but Durkheim, a sociologist, was one of the first to write about it in terms of human development rather than from a religious perspective (which some might term "religio-babble" ).

    However, I accept that some people have a low tolerance for sociological explanations of human behaviour. If the sociological explanation is not for you, so be it. This is a forum for opinions not dogma.

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "Most kids look up to their parents as 'gods' and model their eventual image of god on one or other of their parents or both. ..." Steve2

    LOL! what a load of psycho babble!..." Glander

    Geez, Glander...

    You didn't know that? It's pretty common knowledge among psychiatrists AND anthropologists...

    This one is a book titled, "Attachment, Evolution, and the Psychology of Religion"...

    http://books.google.com/books?id=7-3UvJk5XY8C&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=gods+based+on+parental+images&source=bl&ots=yapNMmaMHi&sig=KK4xTz7Dx1f7Vv4sbevj-NTIsyk&hl=en#v=onepage&q=gods%20based%20on%20parental%20images&f=false

    This one's titled, "Gods Based on Parental Images"...

    http://books.google.com/books?id=LlYloErK6_oC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=gods+based+on+parental+images&source=bl&ots=Gfsx6k6RzK&sig=00SiEi2S216lq57r0v03YVSvHvY&hl=en#v=onepage&q=gods%20based%20on%20parental%20images&f=false

    This one's an 'abstract' about the influences of parental behavior on childrens' perceptions of "god"...

    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1386764?uid=3739568&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=56107111603

    Zid

  • steve2
    steve2

    Thanks Zid...I think

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Oooopsies????

  • Glander
    Glander

    The origin of "religous concepts", a higher power, etc. are obvious in mankinds history. It is the inate tendency towards superstition. Crops failed? babies dying at birth? why? Conclusions are drawn and measures taken to appease the 'gods'. This is but a short step from religion, organized superstition.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Steve2 will probably field this question...

    However, Glander, the first deities were predominantly goddesses, because humans didn't quite understand the male's role in reproduction - OR because paternity wasn't quite so easily established as it was when women began to be viewed as the 'property' of one male. As a result, many of the earlier goddesses' aspects were modeled on human mothers - as well as being modeled on fearful aspects of animals and/or natural forces.

    Having said that, I also want to throw out the very powerful belief systems in "animism", and the beliefs that humans had spirit companions among the other animals - and also the related belief systems that animals WERE 'gods' or "messengers" of gods.

    The animal/human mixtures of many of the Babylonian and Egyptian deities strongly indicates that the earliest gods/goddesses were probably combinations of human and animal characteristics... As do many of the archaeological discoveries of pre-literate societies.

    On the other hand, two of the very oldest representations of human forms - the "Berekhat Ram" figurine and the "Tan-Tan" figurine - indicate a wholly human 'deity' concept - and those two PREDATE Homo sapiens, being made by Homo erectus at least 100,000 + years before Homo sapiens came along.

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    What drives me wild is that the society paints apostates as "proud." Let me tell you (and I'm sure most already know) there is not a more humbling experience than realizing your religion, your life, who you are as a person, was all based on BULLSHIT.

    It takes a tremendous amount of humility to admit that to yourself. There is no pride left when you are done - and you really have to rebuild a healthy level quickly in order to survive.

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    BOC, well said. It is very humbling to realize you've been taken in by a bunch of religious con-artists.

    If any one is the proud and arrogant it is the GB and the WT leadership that continue to insist they are God's only Organization in spite of the fact that not one single thing they have ever predicted has come to pass!

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