Faith without works is dead?

jemba

My crazy brainwashed parents have devoted their lives to this cult, to the detriment of their children. I recently told my Mum that I needed to stop anything JW because of the anxiety and depression it has caused me for over 30 years. She said 'Oh well if thats what you have to do... but you know armaggedon is just around the corner and Jehovah expects us to toe the line... faith without works is dead.'

Out of respect I didnt argue with her that day as I did just drop a bombshell and I was staying in her home for their anniversary party, as I live a 40 drive away. Ive thought many times what I would loved to have said to her.

What would you have said?.. What scriptures and reasoning would counteract this kind of argument?.

Black Sheep

It depends on her age. If she is a 75er, armageddon's time has been and gone and the Watchtower's god didn't kill anybody, which is a really good sign that the WT was never selected. Deut 18:20-22 Get her to read it to you.

Have literature in your glovebox with failed prophetic mumbo jumbo, or have access to a WTCD

Chariklo

I might say:

1. how do you know Jehovah expects us to toe the line? Exactly what line, and how?

2. Faith without works is dead....well, that depends on what faith and what works, doesn't it?

3. If 2 is too challenging, then, just what works? How do you define works? Feeding the hungry, giving shelter to the homeless, strengthening the weak? Doing to others as you would wish they would do to you? Exercising compassion towards all humankind? How would you define works?

As far as I can see, the line that JW's talk of is nowhere in the Bible. Their definition of works bears little resemblance to what Christ taught.

3Mozzies

Ephesians 2:8-9

By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift. No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting.

Fernando

Hey jemba!

Some good posts above!

What about asking:

"Mom please can you explain to me why Paul spoke against works, and James spoke in favour of works, how do we reconcile this seeming contradiction with integrity?" NEVER give her the answer. ALWAYS gently ask her what she has learnt lately on the issue.

Hopefully she is troubled by her inability to explain such a simple Christianity 101 issue.

Paul was speaking against "works of the law" performed with the view to achieving a right standing with God (as this would mean Jesus died for nothing or his priceless ransom was somehow inadequate and needs our help to augment).

James was speaking in favour of "works of faith" performed out of a spiritually renewed or regenerated heart out of gratitude for the many free gifts received such as being granted faith (a wide opening of our spiritual eyes), and being granted repentance (awareness of dysfunction), and being granted IMPUTED righteousness (justification), and being granted IMPUTED holiness (sanctification).

Watchtower religionist's inability to explain the "good news" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms (from the heart) is proof positive they do NOT have faith (a wide opening of our spiritual eyes). Bear in mind more than half the Bible's ±152 references to the "good news" are by Paul!!!

2 Corinthians 4:4 BBE

Bible in Basic English Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

TTWSYF

Faith without works is dead. Yes, that is what the bible says.

It does not say that you are saved by works, but the exact opposite.

To me that means that once you have faith and have been saved then you DO works because of your faith. In other words, you have the true faith and feel compelled to do works weather volunteering at a food pantry, donate to good causes [alms] or just praying for others or perhaps other works that are hidden from others, but not from God.

respectfully,

DC

Diest

It was a shame they never made this a kingdom melody.

Faaaith without wooorks is deaaaad. Siiiiing out with joy of heart, if you dont go out in service you will die at armagedon. (I dont think I am a great song writer...)

blond-moment

They totally warp that scripture like the do so many else. Faith without works is dead, if you were to read that whole thing in context is is about changing a lifestyle.

Faith without works is your faith, changes you, you take a different path. Works is you can no longer WILLFULLY do what you BELIEVE to be wrong. Works is not how much time you put in how many meetings you go to etc. You can't earn salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast." What is the JWs claim to fame?...we are the only ones going door to door....boasting.

Romans 11:6 "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." -- It is like saying, here I have a free gift for you, I am giving you this wonderful thing just because I love you here you go. Oh by the way, what time can you be here Saturday? For what you ask? Oh to work off that free gift I just gave you out of love.

The problem in Watchtowerland is that the NT isn't for the "other sheep". The other sheep get the scraps off the table. Jesus and his promises, words, etc are only for the "anointed" again in Watchtowerland that really only means the GB. The job of the other sheep is to "assist" the GB, work for the GB, suffer for the GB, OBEY THE GB. They even use the scripture in Matt. "you did these to the least of these my brothers you did it to me"....that's how we please Jesus by doing FOR the least of these, the GB (lastest special assembly baptismal talk)

In Watchtowerland, only the "anointed" are saved by grace, or undeserved kindness as they call it. The rest have to work for it, and maybe, just maybe, if they work hard enough, they stand a chance.

Yeah, good news my butt.

Chariklo

You have it absolutely right, blond-moment.

The Watchtower God is cruel and unloving. He doesn't love us for who we are, which is what I'd always leanred. We have to work very hard indeed to keep ourselves in God's love, as that horrible book says. In Watchtowerland.

Whereas, really he has numbered the hairs on our head and loves each individual thing he has created, no matter how small or insignificant.

bobld

My take WORKS means you work at not sinning.

Faith without works is dead?

Share this