by mind blown 58 Replies latest watchtower scandals
This is on the official US Government site.
Note: Someone was under the impression this was unconstitutional and it wouldn't pass, however, Steven Unthank replyed that tax exempt status (re: USC Title 26 § 501 Tax Exemptions Requirements) is not a constitutional right and can indeed be regulated by the US government through the IRS. Freedom of religion does no mean freedom from tax.
With all due respect to Mr. Unthank I am not sure he's an expert on American constitutional law. The US legal system can't tell you what to say or not say, neither can it tell a church how to regulate itself. And it can't use the tax code to punish speech and thought it doesn't like. In other words (at least in my not so humble opinion) if it wants to deny tax exemptions from one church on the basis of its beliefs, it would have to deny it to all of them. I've walked away from at least two religious organizations when they no longer met my needs. I have yet to figure out how to walk away from the government under similar circumstances. Until I do, I will remain more afraid of a government that can regulate my thought than I am of church that tries to.
The request would seem to apply to all nonprofits, not just cults, since you generally can't have a federal law that only affects certain churches (discrimination).
So you are asking the IRS to force all nonprofits to "promote freedom of religion and freedom of speech".
Specifically what are you asking the IRS to force the nonprofits to do?
Its seems the only legal avenue is for the government to revoke a non-profit status based on some violation then that entity would be taxed.
Mindblown: Thanks for the link. Just signed up and joined the petition. If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.
Kojack
Thank you , mind blown for writing this thread. BTW if the aforementioned link does not work in IE you can also use this link: http://wh.gov/Er4. I tried using https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/protect-americans-dangerous-cults-modify-usc-title-26-%C2%A7-501-tax-exemptions-requirements/ZHpbvHfx in IE and it would not work until I replaced https://wwws with http://www without the "s"'s.
If people would like to learn a little more about the US Tax Code and IRS publications, you can read the letter to the Secretary of the Treasury in this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/225023/1/URGENT-Please-Sign-White-House-Petition-to-Protect-Americans-from-Dangerous-Cults-Modify-USC-Title-26-c2a7-501-Tax-Exemption-Requirements.
Congress is empowered to pass laws that do not infringe on individuals' rights of freedom of religion and speech, but that does not mean that Congress cannot prevent individuals from killing, slandering, or deceiving other people.
The last time I checked organizations are not people, and therefore do not have those same rights. I created this White House petition so that all dangerous cults would not receive tax exemptions and not just the religious ones.
Steven Unthank may not be an expert on the US Tax Code, but he was very kind to post the link on his Facebook pages when I asked him to. Steven Unthank (and everyone else) is not perfect. He just cares about and loves other people, and is willing to make sacrifises for them.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
The last time I checked organizations are not people, and therefore do not have those same rights
/sigh/
Actually under US Constitutional law, as interpreted by the current US Supreme Court, they do.
I think I need to start a thread on how I feel about this. It may turn into another essay before I'm done.
JeffT- Actually under US Constitutional law, as interpreted by the current US Supreme Court, they do.
I think I need to start a thread on how I feel about this. It may turn into another essay before I'm done.
Hi JeffT, I look forward to you writing a thread about your feelings that the U.S. Consitution protects the rights of freedom of religion and speech for corporations the same as for individuals. Please include links to U.S. Supreme Court Cases and excerpts in your thread to support your opinion. I would also recommend that you read the following U.S. Supreme Court decisions from www.law.cornell.edu , which I would use to substantiate my opinion that the U.S. Constitution protects an individuals' rights of religion and speech from government infringement and not a corporation's rights:
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
I'm well aware of that court decision. I'm an accountant, and until a few years ago I was closely involved with some of the business operations at a church we attended. The decision you referenced regarded tax treatment of for profit businesses by religious organizations. It boils down to the fact that you can't claim relief from taxes on normal business operations (such as selling books or magazines) under the guise of religious activity. This is why the WTBS went to the donation arrangement, they aren't selling anything, therefore it is a nontaxable event. In other words the decision dealt only with financial matters, not church policy, doctrine or administration. This is clearly within the authority of the government.
My comment about recent court decisions is based on the Citizen's United Case, which determined that corporations have the same First Amendment rights as people.
There is a logical fallacy at the heart of what this petition is attempting to do. In the name of religious freedom it would have the government determine what a church can or cannot teach. This is clearly prohibited by the First Amendment protection of the free exercise of religion. My point is not that the government can't remove tax free status from a church, it is that it can't do so based solely on doctrine or administration. It can remove tax exempt status based on economic activity (you can't pretend your business is a charity and the IRS has rules for making the determination). The government could, if it wanted to, remove tax relief from ALL churches, but I suspect it would have to just give up on the idea of tax relief for ANY charity in the process. What it can't do is remove tax relief from religions it doesn't like, or those that don't teach some acceptable set of beliefs.
And who gets to decide what is a cult?
I hate to break it to those looking for simple institutional solutions to groups like the Watchtower, but I don't think it can (or should) happen in this country. It will take a lot of heavy lifting, but the way to fight these groups is by shining the light of day into the dark corners. It takes time and hard work but we'll bring people out one at a time.
Hi JeffT, Are you referring to CITIZENS UNITED v . FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION ? If you are referring to that Supreme Court decision than I will be glad to read it more carefully, and I would look forward to writing comments about your opinions when you start a new thread. I will keep my comments short, since I do not want to hijack this thread. BTW have you read the petition at http://wh.gov/Er4 ?
My cursory read of the aforementioned Supreme Court case makes me feel that you are combining 1st Amendment protection of Freedom of Speech with all the other clauses in the 1st Amenndment, including the Free Excercise clause about religion. Traditionally the Supreme Court narrowly construes the Constitution when it decides cases, so I do not feel that any law resulting from the petition that I wrote would violate any 1st Amendment rights. If 25,000 people did sign this petition, I would be the first person to recommend that any bill should be reviewed by the ACLU, Americans United, Citizens United, and other Constitutional legal experts to confirm that the bill would not violate the Constitution.
If you read Supreme Court decisions carefully, you will learn that Freedom of Speech and Religious rights can be limited by government. I suggest that you read REYNOLDS v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878) where a Mormon was not permitted to practice polygamy but was permitted to believe in polygamy. Likewise people are limited in talking about committing crimes or inciting armed revolution against the government.
USC Title 26 § 501 applies to only non-profit organizations that wish to qualify for tax exempt status. This petition would only add requirements for qualifying for tax exempt status. § 501 already prohibits some non-profit organizations from lobbying activities to maintain their tax exempt status which in some ways limits freedom of speech of those organizations. I would argue that this petition allows individuals to believe in shunning people, but would not permit organizations and their leaders teaching their members to use coercion to coerce their members to shun family and friends.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
