A RIGHT-eous conundrum!

by Fernando 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    How can I be RIGHT with God?

    There are only TWO ways:

    1. Work to prove, earn, deserve or pay for a RIGHT standing with God (unscriptural, and actually causes corruption)
    2. Seek out and accept the free gift of IMPUTED righteousness, and then be transformed or changed from inside by God's love (scriptural)

    A person spends his life in a religious system because he wants to be RIGHT with God. When he sees what a failure the religious system is he is again left with TWO choices:

    1. Find out more about IMPUTED righteousness (the gospel message)
    2. Deny God exists

    The conundrum - How on earth does a person navigate the treacherous waters of religion without ending up with the last option?

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    The conundrum - How on earth does a person navigate the treacherous waters of religion without ending up with the last

    option?

    2. Deny God exists

    What is wrong with denying something exists when the logical conclusion after much research is, it doesn't?

    What other conclusion are you looking for as no other exists?

  • nugget
    nugget

    It is a mistake to assume that there are only 2 options. Life is not either or.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo
    How can I be RIGHT with God?

    Hey there, Fernando! Interesting thread!

    No, the more I think about this, the less comfortable I am with this approach. I think you're asking the wrong question.

    I suspect that we don't need so much to worry about "being right" with God. That's the presupposition behind the book "Keep yourself in God's Love". It's wrong.

    I think a better presupposition is that God loves us. As our Father, he loves his children.

    A person spends his life in a religious system because he wants to be RIGHT with God.

    I have a feeling that fundamentally the reason a person exists within a religious system is because it accords with his beliefs. He or she may be born into a particular religion or come to it later in life but that's the root of it.

    I don't think we can make ourselves right with God because we were not wrong as such with God. Though we may act in ways that perhaps displease him or make him sad. That's another matter. Then we may need to put right any hurtful situation with another person or group of people.

    I'm going to have to leave this now but I'll come back here later in the day, and see if an interesting discussion has been taking place! See you later!

  • moshe
    moshe

    sometimes the final option is left out- None of the above.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Are you asking a question or telling us?

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    1. Find out more about IMPUTED righteousness (the gospel message)
    2. Deny God exists

    Are these the only choices? Because they seem very limited to me.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    If a person had endless life and "spends his life in [each] religious system because he wants to be RIGHT with God" and needs to know which one it is that is RIGHT with God, he would learn that none of them are RIGHT with God. They hold contradictions to be true.

    Then he might learn that "RIGHT" is such a human trait. Religion tries to define "sin" and make people feel guilty if they are not living up to the standard of avoiding sin.

    There are rights and wrongs. Don't let religion define them for you. Instead of telling you there is no God, I will tell you that you know right from wrong. Obey the law of the land, protest it where it is wrong. Don't intentionally hurt others. Do right by your fellow human being. If there is a God anywhere close to men's understanding, He will see that you have done right. You will be okay.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey still thinking!

    Certainly would love to know your thoughts on this.

    In hindsight there seems to be quite a few more options that come to mind, in relation to the existence of God and what to do about it, for a person who has become disenchanted with the religious system:

    1. God does exist and is benevolent (so I'll try to discover what he really wants me to know)
    2. God does exist and is malevolent (so want nothing more to do with him)
    3. I may have been worshipping the wrong God by my activities in religion, so I will look for the right God and his message.
    4. It can't be established if God does or does not exist, so I won't look for him or his message (agnostic?)
    5. God does not exist (atheist)

    What are your thoughts? What other interesting options come to mind?

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey Chariklo!

    Thank you for those thoughts.

    I feel the same way about the presupposition behind the book "Keep yourself in God's Love" being wrong. As you say God already loves us as a father would his children.

    If you have a moment I'd love to read your take on some of what Paul had to say about righteousness (a right standing with God), and being put right with God by being counted or declared to be right by imputation, instead of by merit.


    (Romans 5:18) . . .So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous for life.

    (Romans 4:25-5:2) . . .He was delivered up for the sake of our trespasses and was raised up for the sake of declaring us righteous. Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have gained our approach by faith into this undeserved kindness in which we now stand. . .

    (Romans 5:6-11) . . .For, indeed, Christ, while we were yet weak, died for ungodly men at the appointed time. For hardly will anyone die for a righteous [man]; indeed, for the good [man], perhaps, someone even dares to die. But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more, therefore, since we have been declared righteous now by his blood, shall we be saved through him from wrath. For if, when we were enemies, we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, now that we have become reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only that, but we are also exulting in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

    (Romans 5:17) . . .For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ.

    (Romans 4:1-8) . . .That being so, what shall we say about Abraham our forefather according to the flesh? If, for instance, Abraham were declared righteous as a result of works, he would have ground for boasting; but not with God. For what does the scripture say? “Abraham exercised faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the man that works the pay is counted, not as an undeserved kindness, but as a debt. On the other hand, to the man that does not work but puts faith in him who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness. Just as David also speaks of the happiness of the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Happy are those whose lawless deeds have been pardoned and whose sins have been covered; happy is the man whose sin Jehovah will by no means take into account.”

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