Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NewChapter

  You have put the cart before the horse and you think it's worth something.

  We have put the cart before the horse? By saying we don't have the answers yet? Or is putting the cart before the horse insisting that because we found a possible cubby hole for a god, then it is there? Metaphors are fun. Scientists say, "I don't know." Cart pushers say, "It MUST be god." I'm banking on the scientists, who still have a curiosity and desire to know, to answer this question before believers who have decided they already know.
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  sabastious

  Sure, sure. They can hold a stethoscope and follow directions, but they won't advance anything.

  People who believe in a "6 day" theory are saying that those 6 24 hour days were chock full of God's miracles which does abide by the rules of logic. It cannot be empirically demonstrated, but what can in the world of spirituality? That's the difference between the two worlds. One is subject to the rules and one is not. Therefore how they interact with each other is not going to be straightforward. I don't call the "6 day" person a fool, they just have a more simplistic approach in that particular aspect of God. This is not deficiency, it is preference. You live soley within the physical realm, you have no soul and that is your choice.

  Perhaps you could tone down the insults against me personally, and attack my ideas instead.

  I'm not trying to insult you I am coming to a conclusion based off evidence. I have seen you parade these halls for so long and I have gathered enough information about you to firmly conclude that you skull is thick. I would go as far to say that I am not the first person who has told you this. Maybe you should take a look around you for evidence that would support or discredit my theory.

  I would have to have more faith in the human mind than the god belief! I would have to have faith that the child could overcome god belief in order to share his/her gifts with the world. Interesting viewpoint. So now----prove you statement. If you are raised in a family that holds higher education and science in contempt, how prepared will you be to gain the skills needed to fully use your talent? How long will it take for you to cast off the weight of god belief? How much time will be lost? If you come up with some outrageous (and ungodly) ideas, will you be pushed into submission so that you no longer even investigate that part of your intellect? What if the child is incredibly talented, but not quite to Einstein's caliber? What if he/she is timid? Can only mental giants escape small minded teaching? Do those that are smaller giants never get the chance?

  If we lived in the 1940's I would tend to agree with you, but we live in the age of the internet. The age of information being available at the rate of Moores Law:

  Moore's law is a rule of thumb in the history of computing hardware whereby the number of transistors that can be placed inexpensively on an integrated circuit doubles approximately every two years. The period often quoted as "18 months" is due to Intel executive David House, who predicted that period for a doubling in chip performance (being a combination of the effect of more transistors and their being faster). [ 1 ]

  No one is going to stop the avalanche of information that is coming out of the internet, NC, so your entire argument falls on it's face. It's the law of personal responsibility that should be taught to the kids along with any lies that the teacher wants to include. When information is available, the mind will choose what is most correct.

  -Sab
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  sabastious

  I don't want to enact laws, I want to reason---or as you say---poach the believers with my evil ideas.

  Misinformation is harmless when truth sits beside it. The real harm is in the mind control. The ACTUAL control of information is what should be targeted.

  I said that working against one's right to have a faith is evil. As in saying you can't teach physics because you believe in a 6 day creation. So far you have ONE evil idea that I have identifed. Are you an advocate of the abolishment of faith in society? Are you actively working towards a world without God? If so, then you are evil by my own definitions.

  -Sab
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  NewChapter

  You live soley within the physical realm, you have no soul and that is your choice.

  LOL. I agree, however coming from a believer in souls, I'm assuming this is an insult. That's okay, at least we agree. You don't have a soul either, and that's neither an insult nor a compliment, just a statement.

  I have gathered enough information about you to firmly conclude that you skull is thick.

  Do you have some measurments for me to look at?

  No one is going to stop the avalanche of information that is coming out of the internet, NC, so your entire argument falls on it's face. It's the law of personal responsibility that should be taught to the kids along with any lies that the teacher wants to include. When information is available, the mind will choose what is most correct.

  And yet, we have millions of JW's and other fundamentalists to disprove your theory.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Here's an interesting discussion upon mankind's evolving social moralities distinctively created separate from any religious theology.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Kp_JCEsto&feature=related
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  NewChapter

  As in saying you can't teach physics because you believe in a 6 day creation.

  If you believe in a 6 day creation you shouldn't teach physics---just as you shouldn't teach evolution (edit). You don't even believe in the basics---what business trying to teach these things?

  Are you an advocate of the abolishment of faith in society?

  Absolutely not. Everyone needs to be free to have their own ideas.

  Are you actively working towards a world without God? If so, then you are evil by my own definitions.

  Yes indeed. Through reason. Is reason evil? Apparently so, and so am I. I love when believers call me evil after having just whined about some cheap shot. It's cute.
• 

  sabastious

  And yet, we have millions of JW's and other fundamentalists to disprove your theory.

  Are you kidding me? Have you been watching the Watchtower quake and tumble over the past 10 years? They will be a memory in 50 years and teachers will be teaching what happened to them and why. They will be looked back upon as the zombies of old. They are the ghost stories of the future. As we look back upon the brutality of the ancient world in disgust as will our children with our information controlling techniques which is what the brutality was caused by as well.

  Do you have some measurments for me to look at?

  You consistantly present and staunchly defend slanted arguments both when you debate as an atheist and a democrat. The evidence is your post history.

  LOL. I agree, however coming from a believer in souls, I'm assuming this is an insult. That's okay, at least we agree. You don't have a soul either, and that's neither an insult nor a compliment, just a statement.

  I believe in dormant souls. Everybody has a soul purpose, of which can be tossed aside like a rag doll because of free will. However being an atheist doesn't keep you from your soul purpose, it's how you use the atheism that determines that. Just like everything else.

  -Sab
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  sabastious

  If you believe in a 6 day creation you shouldn't teach physics---just as you shouldn't teach creation. You don't even believe in the basics---what business trying to teach these things?

  It's been documented, as I know you like that, that there are people who don't mind teaching what the current science is while still holding onto the belief in a six day creation because they also believe in MIRACLES. Richard Dawkins and Laurance Krouse are advocates of basing pay off of belief. As in paying "real" scientists more than fake ones. You consistantly ignore the scope of the belief of God. You brush them off and it truly bothers me.

  Yes indeed. Through reason. Is reason evil? Apparently so, and so am I. I love when believers call me evil after having just whined about some cheap shot. It's cute.

  Reason is not at odds with God, that's just your belief. In the end all you are doing is waging a holy war.

  -Sab
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  NewChapter

  You consistantly present and staunchly defend slanted arguments both when you debate as an atheist and a democrat. The evidence is your post history.

  I see---sooooo----convinction of ideas is being thick skulled. Okay. If I agree with everything you say, will that thin my skull out? (I have some theories here, but I'll let you answer). Are you afraid of strongly held ideas? Does it make you angry when a person can always support them, and you can't shake them? Should I not defend my arguments? Would you rather certain things remain unsaid? Perhaps you are not comfortable with an open forum, but would like to write opinion pieces unchallenged? And---when your arguments run thin---are personal insults the next step?

  I believe in dormant souls.

  I've not heard this one before. What is your evidence? Did you come up with it yourself, or have you read it somewhere? Why do you conclude such?
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  Finkelstein

  The biggest problem for some people in society is that atheism leaves certain ones completely powerless, this is mostly concerning for men.

  After all man was created in god's own image not a woman .

  Taking power away from these men would be a dire evil from their own perspective.

  Ask any leading governing body member of any organized religious organization. (JWS)