Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  tec

  I agree that it is a silly analogy. Because as soon as someone points out the impossibility to keep your children from hurting one another; then the analogy no longer counts, because God is more powerful. Calling the police does not stop someone from hurting another person. The police can't do anything unless a crime has been committed (though a threat is also a crime; there might not be a threat given first). So calling the police does not do it. Is there anything else that anyone can think of?

  In what way do you think God can stop all the evil that is in this world? Without policing people's every move, or smiting everyone who would harm others? Because one careless, thoughtlessly cruel word or act can start a cycle of hurt, anger, and even violence/fueds. People have to change what is within them in order for the world to change.

  So perhaps everyone who might make that change is being given opportunity TO make that change.

  And again, as I said earlier... there are many who belong to Christ and God who are asking that the entire place be spared for the sake of just the few 'righteous'. Or innocent. Like Abraham did concerning Sodom and Gomorrah. Who ask for mercy for all; who ask for time and forgiveness for all.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  NewChapter

  I suppose my bigger point is that I don't just stand and observe. I do whatever is in my power. If I had unlimited power and wisdom, I could come up with a better solution because I care to. Now we could clear this up completely by simply dismissing the notion of free will. The powerful have free will because they have the muscle to back it up. The weak can have their free will taken in an instant. Or dismiss the notion that an all powerful and wise god really cares. Or dismiss the notion that there is a god at all, and humans act as they do, and the rest of us do our best to keep order---all on our own. Because that is really the truth of the matter. If god exists, we are on our own. If it doesn't, then we are on our own.

  Those that belong to Christ really aren't asking for the entire place to be spared. Jesus taught them not to do so. Instead he taught them to pray for god's kingdom to come. They are told to hold their heads up when things get bad, because deliverance is near. In other words, 'please, god, make it stop.'

  I did not mean to suggest that GOD should call the police, which is why the analogy is silly. I merely point out that I would do the most powerful thing I am able to do, which is to call the police. Or help someone get away from an abusive situation. But somehow, STEP IN, and do what I can. I am assuming that if there is a god, most assume it has more power than I do.

  NC
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  tec

  If I had unlimited power and wisdom, I could come up with a better solution because I care to.

  True.

  So if God does ex ist, one who has both power and wisdom, then He IS doing what should be done. He is the only one who knows. Just because you or I might not understand or see it, does not mean that what is needed to be done... is not being done. In fact, if such a God e xists, then what is needed to be done... IS... being done. Whether we see or acknowledge that or not.

  Those that belong to Christ really aren't asking for the entire place to be spared. Jesus taught them not to do so. Instead he taught them to pray for god's kingdom to come. They are told to hold their heads up when things get bad, because deliverance is near. In other words, 'please, god, make it stop.'

  There are those who do ask for that. Who were taught to forgive all, ask for forgiveness for all, to show mercy to all, to bless even enemies. There is not a single person I would want condemned in this world. I would want all to repent (sincerely) and come into life, helping instead of hurting.

  Praying for God's Kingdom to come is not the same as praying for destruction of any people. Perhaps there is no other way... but certainly no one wants even one single person who might have come to life, to lose out on that because that person did not have the chance to learn mercy and service and compassion and love.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  We can argue back and forth all day, but I have yet to hear a good excuse for the all-powerful, all-wise, all-benevalent GOD standing by while tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of children die in a tsunami or an earthquake. Or the suffering that a mother and father have to go through when someone rapes and murders their child and buries the evidence that they are dead.

  An idea I adopted from the Brothers Karamazov: No matter how God justifies inactions, no matter what the reward later, if every last thing is explained in a way that makes sense and sounds justified, I will still say the price is too high. I would rather not participate in such a plan.

  It is better that I reject the existence of such a God than think that such inaction exists within one who could stop it.
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  NewChapter

  But that is what Jesus taught them to pray for, so whatever their personal feelings on the issue, Jesus taught them to pray for GOD's way.

  This will just be a circular conversation from here.

  NC
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  LV101

  True the topic might be circular but it's good. Criminals don't seem to worry about consequences --- perhaps the laws for punishment are inept.

  NewChapter --- like your paragraph above re/free will not a gift and comment about brains (good one).

  If God reads the heart (and knows the outcome for each individual and it's not a roll of the dice) then why the wait. He's patient with all so there must be a reason we can't comprehend.
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  LV101

  ahhh, Tec, I missed your post above re/believers asking God for time to spare individuals.
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  tootired2care

  Some of the earlier comments between TEC and NC made me think of classroom of unruly kids, that are out of control before the teacher shows up. Once the figure of authority makes it know that he is there the students generally behave. If God cared about making it so that wickedness did not happen on the earth he would logically make ALL mankind know that he is there, which would really help the jackasses to think twice. But does he do that? Not that I can tell.

  Aren't we supposed to be made in his image? So if our imperfect sense of justice can see how aweful it is for starving baby to be eaten by a vulture is beyond f@cked up than why can't God?

  Therefore, if YOU, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to YOUR children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!” - Luke 11:13

  Where is his good gift to the starving childs parents that begged God for help them have a meal? I cannot accept that God is allowing this to happen for a good reason other than his pride to win a bet.

  
• 

  Ding

  What are the limits?

  In other words, is there some of suffering and injustice which God would have discretion to allow for some purpose we don't understand or do you think he should be required to prevent it all?

  Also, have we done all we can to eliminate some of the extreme suffering that's being discussed, such as starvation in various parts of the world? If you conclude that God doesn't exist, then that leaves it up to us, doesn't it?
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  tootired2care

  I don't think he should prevent it all just like the teacher of the class does not prevent all verbal bullying. I think if he really is there he has a responsiblity to confirm he is there, and that he is interested. This would not solve all of the problems but would at least hopefully take care of some big ones. And him being all knowing he should know what needs to be done to find that good balance.

  Human children always resent fathers that were never there why should it be any different with God? Since he hasn't shown himself in 2,000 if you believe in that, then maybe it's time to stop worrying about what the hell he thinks and be free and advance freedom.