Is it Biblical to Shun??

by charlie 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • waiting
    waiting

    This information can be found at The Beacon, http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html IMHO, this is the best discussion and argument about disfellowshipping/disassociation that I have read. Please take the time to read it, and go visit the website. This is Ray Franz's website.

    Jehovah's Witnesses and Shunning

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One of the characteristics of a destructive religion is an enforced policy that requires the members to shun anyone who leaves or gets expelled from the religion. It is a common trait among esoteric movements that claim to be "the Truth." Members are required to sever association with even their own family members and relatives who leave. The consequences of this harsh doctrinal policy are extreme, shattering family relationships and leaving the victims emotionally and spiritually devastated. Suicides or attempted suicides are not uncommon.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are among the religious groups that practice extreme shunning of former members. Of all the Watchtower Society's legalistic doctrines, this one is perhaps the most responsible for uprising among former members against the Organization that has resulted in exhaustive examination and exposés of their flawed teachings and history.

    Former members who disavow faith in the Watchtower organization's doctrines are branded "apostates." Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that they must hate such ones. An article titled "Search Through Me, O God" appeared in the October 1, 1993 Watchtower. Speaking about "apostates" on page 19, beginning with paragraph 15, we read:

    15 Regarding them, the psalmist said: "Do I not hate
    those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I
    not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a
    complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to
    me real enemies." (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because
    they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them
    with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those
    who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him.
    Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some
    apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject
    teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others
    claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah's
    organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they
    deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is
    right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an
    inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must
    hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have
    inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True
    Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such
    apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On
    the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have
    made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to
    Jehovah to execute vengeance.
    --Job 13:16; Romans
    12:19; 2 John 9, 10.

    An article in The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, on page 29 under the heading "DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES NOT LIVING AT HOME" has this to say (beginning at paragraph 18):

    18 The second situation that we need to consider is that
    involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is
    not in the immediate family circle or living at one's home.
    Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so
    there may be some limited need to care for necessary
    family matters.
    Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living
    in the same home where contact and conversation could
    not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the
    Bible's inspired direction: "Quit mixing in company with
    anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy
    person . . . , not even eating with such a man."--1 Cor.
    5:11.

    See also the reference to this article on page 20 of The Watchtower, November 15, 1988.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Disfellowshipping versus SHUNNING
    The point of this commentary will be to show that the Watchtower Society's shunning doctrine does not adhere to the Bible. Further, an understanding of congregational practices of first-century Christians in the Jewish culture is necessary for a proper understanding of the scriptures on this matter.

    The primary scripture for consideration is:

    But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.--1.Cor. 5:11 (NWT)

    The text is clear that a person with whom the congregation should not mix company is one who is:

    1) "called a brother" (that is, one who professes to be a member of the congregation); and

    2) practicing fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling (insulting), habitual drunkeness, and/or extortion (theft).

    Jehovah's Witnesses do not disfellowship greedy persons.
    They often do not disfellowship people who regularly get drunk unless their conduct becomes so outrageous and publicly-known as to bring reproach upon Jehovah's Witnesses.

    They do not disfellowship people for many of the things which they themselves class as "idolatry" (for example: materialism, worshipping an organization, etc.).

    On the other hand, Jehovah's Witnesses do disfellowship and shun people for:

    no longer claiming to be called a brother/sister.

    independent study and discussion of the Bible that brings Watchtower doctrine into question.

    possession of literature written by former members.

    having lunch with a former member, even if the former member professes to be a Christian and was not disfellowshipped for fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling, drunkeness, or extortion.

    attending a service of any other church or religious organization.

    authorizing a blood transfusion, even to save the life of a child. (now disassociated)

    numerous other actions not mentioned in scripture, but deemed by the congregation elders to be "unclean conduct," or "conduct unbecoming" of a Jehovah's Witness. "Conduct" in this case covers a broad range of actions not clearly defined by the Society, leaving discernment about what is not acceptable to the discretion of the congregation's elders. As a result, standards by which people may be disfellowshiped are inconsistent throughout this religion which claims "unity" to be one of their identifying characteristics.

    "Not to be mixing in company with" . . . "not even eating with . . ."
    Here it is important to learn the customs of association for worship practiced by first-century Jews and Christians, bearing in mind that Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and customs of their day. Jesus taught in the synogogues; hence, he was called "Rabbi." Matt.26:25; 26:49; Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:25; John 1:38, 49; 3:2, 26; 4:31; 6:25; 9:2; 11:8

    There were two kinds of association for religious worship:

    1) public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend; and

    2) private gatherings of the different sects.

    Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians, met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT)

    Christians were instructed to "greet" one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1.Cor.16:20; 2Cor.13:12; Ti.3:15; 1Pet.5:14) When Paul sent his "greetings" in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the "brothers" be greeted by a "holy kiss" on his behalf. (1Thess.5:26)

    It was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48)

    Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded.

    What of 2 John 10,11?

    If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.--2 John 11 (NWT)

    The above scripture is not about people who have been expelled from the Christian congregation. When read in context, it is about anyone who "does not bring this teaching" [of the Christ]. Because they held congregation meetings in their homes (which might be little more than a dug-out or tent outside the city walls of Jerusalem), in their culture their neighbors might view inviting a non-Christian into the home as the Christian sharing worship with non-Christians.

    Jehovah's Witnesses, while shunning disfellowshipped or disassociated persons, do not prohibit them from attending the congregation meetings at their Kingdom Halls. Yet the congregation was specifically where Paul instructed Christians not be be "mixing in company with" disfellowshipped sinners.

    If the scripture at 2 John 10 were observed literally by Jehovah's Witnesses, they would be obliged to never invite anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness in good standing into their home, or ever speak a greeting to anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness.

    How did Jesus say one expelled from congregation should be treated?

    Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations ['Gentile' in some translations] and as a tax collector.--Matt.18:15-17 (NWT)

    The instruction was to bring up the matter of sin first between the two individuals alone. Then, if the sinner would repent, there was no need to carry the matter further. If the sinner was not repentant, then one or two others should be sought for witnesses. If the sinner remained unrepentant, only then, as a last resort, should it be brought before the entire congregation (not privately with the "elders").

    If, after all that, the person was still would not listen, he should then be treated the same as Gentiles and tax collectors. In other words, Christians were to treat former members just like anyone else who was not a member of the congregation. To be treated like a "man of the nations" (which is to say, a Gentile or foreigner) was far from being shunned. Jewish people worked with, associated with, transacted business with, and preached to Gentiles. As for "tax collectors," Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned.

    "Next, while passing along from there, Jesus caught sight of a man named Matthew seated at the tax office, and he said to him: "Be my follower." Thereupon he did rise up and follow him. Later, while he was reclining at the table in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began reclining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this the Pharisees began to say to his disciples: "Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?"

    Hearing [them], he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do. Go, then, and learn what this means, 'I want mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners."---Matt 9:9-13 NWT

    Conclusion

    There is no scripture basis for mandating that Christians must totally shun former members (that is, have no communication or conversation with them). The instruction is to expel them from the congregation and treat them like anyone else who is not a member.

    Especially, there is no scripture to support shunning of one's own relatives--parents, children and siblings.

    If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."--1 Tim.5:8 (NIV)

    Even for the rest, Paul counseled against abandoning those separated from the congregation:

    "For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother. --2Thes 3:13-15 NWT

    Instruction in the undistributed elders' guide

    When a Jehovah's Witness male qualifies to be an elder in the congregation, he is assigned an uncirculated proprietary book that gives instruction for counseling and disciplinary actions according to the Society's rules. The title of this book is Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock. Interestingly, on the bottom of page 103 in that book, it is stated that Jehovah's Witnesses need not be disfellowshipped for associating with disfellowshipped relatives except if the association involves "spiritual association" or if there is an attempt to excuse the former member's objectional behavior. It says:

    "Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to excuse the wrongful course."--"Flock book", page 103, last paragraph.

    Despite this documented exclusion, Jehovah's Witnesses the world over are taught that to please Jehovah God they must shun their siblings, their children, and even their parents who either choose to leave or are disfellowshipped--especially if the crime is variance with Watchtower doctrine for which they are branded "apostates." And it is a fact that many Witnesses have been disfellowshipped for refusing to shun their disfellowshipped relatives.

    The law of love

    If the law of Christianity can be summed up in one word, it is "LOVE." Does not love rescue and recover the sinner? Would Jesus shun the sheep who strayed from the flock?

    Now all the tax collectors and the sinners kept drawing near to him to hear him. Consequently both the Pharisees and the scribes kept muttering saying: "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them." Then he spoke this illustration to them, saying: "What man of you with a hundred sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the ninety-nine behind in the wilderness and go for the lost one until he finds it? And when he has found it he puts it upon his shoulders and rejoices. And when he gets home he calls his friends and his neighbors together, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost.' I tell you that thus there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who have no need of repentance.--Luke 15:1-7 (NWT)
    Note that the sheep did not have to come back and find the shepherd, the shepherd went after the lost sheep.

    Let us pray that the Watchtower Society will soon be blessed with "new light" on their policy of extremist shunning of former members, thereby liberating thousands--both within and out of the organization--from the heart-strickening anguish imposed by this cruel, unjust, and unscriptural dogma. (bold and italics added)

    IMHO, this is the best discussion and argument about disfellowshipping/disassociation that I have read.

  • peaceloveharmony
    peaceloveharmony

    hi-on H20 they are talking about disfellowshipping.

    http://www.hourglass2.org/wwwboard/messages/314264.html

  • mommy
    mommy

    Happy to be free YOU GO GIRL:)
    I was distracted by her earlier post and forgot why I wanted to post here:) Sorry here goes: The last time a JW came to my door I questioned her about the practice of disfellowshipping. She replied, "I have a very good watchtower article about that, and will bring it back to you" Which she did. Now this was an article in the watchtower dated April 15, 1988 entitled "Discipline that can yeild peacable fruit"
    Basically it is about a court case that went all the way to the supreme court. A woman da herself then felt badly because she was shunned and took them to court for retribution(wtbts view of case) Well the Highest court in the land stood by wtbts laws and the woman lost her case.
    What I am wondering is......They will not agree to fight for this country or vote on laws in this country. BUT they can go running behind the skirts of judges and hide behind the laws THEY don't even advocate until they need them!!!
    Final point... Is it biblical to shun, that depends on your intrepretation of the bible and your belief system.
    I for one will not associate with people I find to be repungnant human beings. But if someone needed me, and I felt they had a good heart, I still would give to them all that I could. Because I would want that done for me. Basically we all have a choice in our associations, we just don't have to use a holier than though attitude about our choices. And I feel this is used alot in all faiths not just JW's
    mommy:)

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    Great article Waiting, thanks for posting it here. You know all those scriptures about association, and not mixing in company, they are all a personal choice, and descion. There is no statement or guidlines for an announcement of any kind or anyone enforcing thier veiwpoint on anyone else.

    In 2 John, it's talking about not housing someone who preaches that Jesus was not resurected in the Flesh, Agnostics. At that time they travled around like the disiples and they were being warned that some of them were false. It was the custom for these traveling men to stay in someones home, while they were in town. The warning was that you wouldn't want to be housing and thus encouraging a false teacher. The word renderd to 'say a greeting', more acurately means 'rejoicing'. So they were advised not to give support to these agnostics. It had nothing to do with those that had fallen away, or sinned, or quite beliveing a bunch of erronous dates and doctrines.

    The WTS even got that one wrong. Also I love the point of Jesus commetns to them about how to treat such ones, 'as men of the nations and as Tax collectors". I used that in my trial, I asked the Elders did Jesus mean how HE treated them or how the Pharisees treated them. The elders were real quite!!!! They are just modern day pharissies that would stone true Christians if they could!

    So glad to be free from that oppression. If someone does something I don't approve up, and I don't feel comfrotable around them, I won't hang out with them, I don't need someone making some announcement from the platform. That's what a conscience is for, whoops is that independant thinking!

    Venice

  • waiting
    waiting

    hey happy,

    As I think about it, my big mouth and honesty, is probably the reason I have never once received a sheparding call or no one has showed any concern as to why I have not been to a meeting in about a 1 or Field service for 3 yrs.

    Probably part of the reason for non-visits. But at least in our neck of the woods, it's a rare thing to get a shepherding call. And when one does occur, it's 20 min., canned encouragement, and out the door to the next family. We used to be told exactly what day and time to expect our "personal shepherding call" and to be sure to be there or notify them in advance so as not to take up somebody else's time.

    Once a year or so, 20 min. You haven't missed much. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with the elders, and growing up in general. I hope you maintain contact with your mother - she sounds neat. Hope she gives your father hell, he deserves some - along with your aunt.

    hey venice

    The first time I read this material, it made sense, in a distant kind of way. Over the past months, I've read it several different times. It makes a lot of sense now. Thanks for the further input.

    Of course, it probably only makes sense to the ones on the "other side of the table."

    waiting

  • Gozz
    Gozz

    Waiting,

    Quote:
    "it probably only makes sense to the ones on the "other side of the table"

    well, you say 'probably' so you're probably right. But truth is, it does make a lot of sense to many on the inside of the camp. There's an unnaturalness associated with shunning that touches the human soul. Just read the treatise on that link. The logic is scripturally irrefutable.And that doesn't sound like 'apostate' stuff.

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    Shepherding call? What's that? My husband was disfellowshipped for smoking, and we were put on some sort of black list I assume. I was never df'd....just inactive....but they avoided me, too. I'm really rather glad that we DON'T have to put up with a yearly shepherding call.

  • Xandit
    Xandit

    In Matthew 18 when Jesus addressed his Jewish audience and said treat them like Gentiles and tax collectors that would have been very clear to his listeners. They were very familiar with first century practice in dealing with those groups. Essentially that meant they didn't have anything to do with them. You might not like it, but that's the way it was.

    I believe there is much wrong with the judicial process but clearly there is a scriptural basis for putting people out of the congregation is they continue a sinful course. Once they are out, then Jesus set the standard for how they should be treated. You might check a few commentaries and see what they say. You'll find pretty general agreeement.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Xandit,

    As for "tax collectors," Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned. - commentary quoted above from Beacon

    The publicans or tax collectors were hated for being the instruments through which the subjection of the Jews to the Roman emperor was perpetuated....they were classed with sinners, harlots, and pagans. - Zondervan's Bible Dictionary

    The WTBTS teaches us to hate unrighteousness - but we're still polite to those persons, such as homosexuals, etc. If we work with them - we talk to them. If we live next door to them, nothing wrong with talking to them. If it's a family member never having been baptized as a jw - we talk to them. There is no shunning involved - we don't approve, even hate their actions, but we treat them politely as people.

    But a jw who is df'd or da'd? They are treated unlike the tax collectors, harlots, etc. They are shunned and the da'd are considered part of the Evil Slave Class, if deemed apostates.

    Jesus set the standard for how they should be treated.

    Yes, I think so too. Mathew was a tax collector, Mary Magdalene was a harlot, Zacchaeus was a chief tax collector. Accepted by Jesus as followers, in spite of their occupations. The tax collectors may have been hated because of politics, but to my knowledge, actually *being* a tax collector was not a sin - nor had to be stopped when becoming a Christian. They were just supposed to return stolen money, and stop stealing.

    waiting

  • Xandit
    Xandit

    waiting, you're missing the point. Consider his audience, what did his statement mean to them? If the way they treated tax collectors had no particular meaning then there would have been no point to using that particular expression. Beacon's comment is disingenuous and frankly self-serving. I suggest you read someone like Edersheim on how Jews treated tax collectors, harlots and pagans (people of the nations.)

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